Folks,

I truly appreciate how we sometimes like to poke fun at other members, and use sarcasm or mockery, either to make a point or in the spirit of camaraderie, such as to make light of a negative situation, or to diffuse a potentially destructive one.

That's what support, having fun, and being a part of a community of help-minded members, is all about.

I know that some members may rub some of you the wrong way. We all have egos, personalities and opinions. And I love rebuttals and arguments based on substance, because healthy debate is what makes us all grow.

If there's a personality clash, or if someone takes an opposing opinion as a personal attack, I'm glad that we can turn it around, provide support, or try to reason with the other person in a tactful way.

But to mock people is crossing the line, I think.

Spoofing other people by creating personas that mimick and satirize other members is walking a fine line between tomfoolery and condescension.

Please. Let's give it a break, OK? I will be deleting personas created for the sole purpose of mocking others in a condescending manner. Sorry, but this is unacceptable.

I'm relatively new to this site, and I don't understand completely what it is that put some people as hard bent against Dale King as they are. Until now I read mostly informative posts from his part, and those that weren't seemed to me to be inoffensive.

Do people somehow feel threatened by his assertive tone? To me it's cool water in a desert of Political Correctness.

Or maybe they are being over-sensitive to Dale's higher than normal sensitivity?

In any case they are behaving as bullies, cruel and coward. For copywriters, they are showing very little understanding of the human mind.

Shame.

David

I am posting this here also so I hope it helps you 'GET IT'

I won't reveal and you won't know some of the behind the scenes stuff.

And actually it goes way beyond the person you mention. For the record ... I support Dale he knows the private messages we have shared!

So ..

-------------------------------------------------------------

At school I remember doing this experiment.

We had to build several bridges all of different constructions.

Some had horizontal frames. Some had triangular frames. Some had arches.

Then we had to place weights on the bridges to find out the strongest.

More importantly ... to find out the BREAKING POINT!

You see even the world's strongest bridge has a point when it'll snap.

2 Weeks ago I walked over the top of Sydney harbor bridge. The guys underneath were removing over 500 layers of lead paint. It was making the bridge weak. It was reducing its strength.

Now can I be very, very blunt with certain members on this board.

Michel Fortin is a mate of mine. We have been working side by side for more than a few years now. I know him. I know him very well.

Yet some of you (and me) see Mike like a strong bridge, unbreakable able to withstand anything.

YOU'RE WRONG, DEAD WRONG!

The constant me-too, mockery and harassment on this board at the moment is affecting him. He is weakening. Wouldn’t you under the same pressure?

Put yourself in Mikes shoes.

-Your wife is ill with cancer.
-Your trying to run a business.
-Your trying to keep a home.
-Your trying to serve your friends and customers.

Then you get back to your P.C, You have to be faced with mindless, moronic posts on your board that are just pure confrontation! Even to the point of using anagrams of mockery designed to provoke. Is that you?

In other words if you are one of those guys ... YOU SEEM MORE THAN HAPPY TO KICK A MAN when he is already down! SICK, SICK, PURE SICK!

Are you one of those guys? Are you one of those that keep taking as much as you can from this huge valuable resource but still want to play with Mikes brain?

If you are I want you to know this. You are pushing the bridge to breaking point. You are the 500 layers of lead paint. You deserve nothing if you carry on.

Mike might be soft on you but I personally will remove you from this board for good.

If you are one of those attention seeking, provoking confrontationists that are stroking their own ego's but crushing Mikes... BACK OFF RIGHT NOW or you are out on your arse!

Let's get this place back on course to THE finest forum on the internet for marketing genius!

Alan.

Bravo Alan, well said.

“In essentials unity, in non-essentials liberty, in all things charity.”

St. John Chrysostom

A.

The past few weeks have been very antagonistic here. Incidents took place that never should have happened, tempers flared, words were exchanged, and then--we hoped--it would be over.

These negative comments are toxic to this forum. Spirited debate is great, but let's get back to the mission at hand here. Please. Michel doesn't need this. We don't need this. While we're all human and have our faults, there comes a time when you make a decision:

You can either contribute to the forum or contaminate it.

Let's take the high road and make this forum as awesome as we know it can be.

Alan,

Let me assure you that I'm not here to confront anyone. I came to this forum for the following reasons:

1. To make friends.
2. To learn how to become a (better) copywriter.
3. In the remote hope that I'll be able to find a job as a copywriter (and general marketing consultant) that will enable me to leave my current job, be happier at what I do, help people, and provide a good living to my family.

Unfortunately, I found a lot of bullying going on, and I'm sickened by it. Having been bullied much more than I like to remember in school, I developed a total aversion to this behaviour.

I know bullies are people too. The act itself only reveals their underlying insecurities, and maybe the way they were treated by others. But I hope people remember that they are hurting other living, breathing, human beings, with family and friends, and problems, and stuff they care about.

I don't think that we should keep quiet when we witness injustice, though. We have a moral obligation to stand up and call people to their senses. But I much prefer Beethoven's "Pastorale" to Napalm Death's "Fear, Emptiness, Despair".

In the immortal words of Elaine Marley, "Let's just be friends, instead".

Thank you very much Michel and Alan. I was starting to think I was the only person offended by the mockery and maybe there's something wrong with _me_ for just not 'getting it'.

I came to this board because I want to learn and grow and contribute. Not possible when people are acting like children. And this from professionals?!?

My hats off to you and especially to Michel for stepping up and saying something. My heart goes out to Sylvie too. Cancer is the ONLY killer in my family of folks over 50. Grandparents, aunts, 2nd and 3rd cousins etc etc etc. I've lived with the fear that I one day will have to face it too if I don't do something stupid to cut life short (I'm only eight years away from the big 50).

Your courage and open honesty Sylvie is definitely encouraging to me. Beyond words. I just hope if (or I should say when) it happens to me, I can be as encouraging to others as you have been to me and to others.

Thanks again Alan and Michel for getting this board back on track and for being above all the crap. Hang in there Michel, you are doing good for many more people than you even realize.

Andre

This is all fine, and good.

but my friends I want to say something:

"Why are we always waiting Fortin to make a remind" ?

and this is what make me sad, we have to keep him far from all this noise and this is each one responsability.

so let this be the last one.

Thank you Michel.

Hey David,

Quick post, I appreciate your feelings about being bullied before and sharing this with the forum. Everyone has been hurt in the past and nobody likes an atmosphere like there is right now. I also understand your concerns...

But I just wanna assure you that this is NOT like this board at all. I've been on here for more than 2 years and this board is characterized by two things:

- Huge talents, great advice & good content
- Mild atmosphere and amazingly friendly people

We're not usually as barbaric as we are now.

So don't mind the mess, make yourself at home and welcome to the board

This has been tough.

I have a strong reaction to bullies too. I used to own a bar in Cody, Wyoming. As you can imagine, the mix of alchohol and cowboy testosterone could get pretty volatile at times.

Usually, I let 'em thump their chests and if occassionally a little ruckus ensued, I didn't mind too much. Most of these guys had been performing this dance since long before I opened shop. I could go back to that town tomorrow and I'm sure they'd still be throwin' down. Same guys, same smack.

As long as the property damage wasn't too significant, it was actually good for business to have a small dust up every now and then, say every 3 or 4 months.

But what I wouldn't stand for was bullying. It sickens me. To watch a dumbass (redneck, thug pick your stereotype) pick someone out of a crowd for no other reason than because of perceived weakness and then proceed to provoke him only because you know you're bigger (or hidden) is the depth of cowardice. That would get you 86'd from Gib's in a heartbeat.

Now, it's hard to bully folks on this board. For one thing verbally intimidating writers is tough.

I've occasionally thought the moderators have let things get out of hand, but I also see the value of allowing the rough and tumble that goes on. It's a bit Darwinian, but you sure get some interesting conversations.

I agree, though that the latest episode was over the line. I'm sure whoever's responsible was just having a little fun, but to allow that to go on would likely allow this board to turn into something pretty sick.

I put this in strong terms, because there's been times when I've behaved like that. This isn't fingerpointing, just recognition that we can sometimes go pretty low, and need to be called out when we do.

Hopefully this is the end of it and we can get back to our usual open and vigorous exchanges.



A.