Those assumptions simply aren't true.

Here's some excerpts from the USDA. Here's the site I got them from.

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Higher Farm Corn Prices, Slightly Higher Food Prices


Field corn is the predominant corn type grown in the U.S., and it is primarily used for animal feed. Currently, less than 10 percent of the U.S. field corn crop is used for direct domestic human consumption in corn-based foods such as corn meal, corn starch, and corn flakes, while the remainder is used for animal feed, exports, ethanol production, seed, and industrial uses. Sweet corn, both white and yellow, is usually consumed as immature whole-kernel corn by humans and also as an ingredient in other corn-based foods, but makes up only about 1 percent of total U.S. corn production.

Since U.S. ethanol production uses field corn, the most direct impact of increased ethanol production should be on field corn prices and on the price of food products based on field corn. However, even for those products heavily based on field corn, the effect of rising corn prices is dampened by other market factors. For example, an 18-ounce box of corn flakes contains about 12.9 ounces of milled field corn. When field corn is priced at $2.28 per bushel (the 20-year average), the actual value of corn represented in the box of corn flakes is about 3.3 cents (1 bushel = 56 pounds). (The remainder is packaging, processing, advertising, transportation, and other costs.) At $3.40 per bushel, the average price in 2007, the value is about 4.9 cents. The 49-percent increase in corn prices would be expected to raise the price of a box of corn flakes by about 1.6 cents, or 0.5 percent, assuming no other cost increases.


Also,

Yiiikes! That settles it then for me.

I was at a party recently where one guy was talking about using cooking oil for gas. I forget the particulars but he was explaining how you can make diesel by buying a couple of easy-to-obtain chemicals.

Bootleg gasoline!

Lance,

How about corn syrup--which is in everything. And how much edible corn product do we export? (just asking---don't know the answer to that one).



Anyway...the price of wheat and other grains and produce seem to have risen is sync with the switch over to ethanol. Arguably because grain and produce supply has gone down in order to use land for ethanol-producing corn. (I haven't checked this for 100% factual accuracy but the truth is pretty close to that, I believe)

The recent hunger riots in impoverished countries were blamed on the depleted rate of grain production. So this is not some abstract argument.

Maybe I'm being chicken little about this, but unless we start using alternative energy (including nuclear power)--I think we are right now in the low tide stage of a major energy crisis that will impact every aspect of our lives. Wait until high tide, folks.

Poorer countries are the canary in the minefield...

Lance... while all you say is true (I suppose)... It doesn't go far enough. I've heard reports on the news (local and cable) about poor places that don't get enough food because farmers did the math and with the gov't subsidizing this feed corn is far more profitable than food for them to grow. So... they forget about the people and go for the money.

Plus... from what I'm hearing it's the price of cattle feed that is becoming the problem. If they cost more to feed... they cost more to buy.

Plus plus... ethanol sucks. The process to turn corn into alcohol is one that takes a bunch of energy. And whether or not it's entirely true about humans, we're turning something that is food... into a fuel.

Let's face it... there are far cheaper things we can more easily turn into alcohol to drive our cars on. The whole idea of corn being the thing is (I'm sure) thanks to some big corn growers' lobby that helped make it happen. I don't remember the exact numbers but it's something like a 50 cent per gallon subsidy for ethanol. So we pay more at the pump... AND more per gallon. That's a lose/lose where I come from.

Anwar...
Coast of Florida...
Coast of Texas...
California desert...
Colorado shale deposits (reported to be massive)...

We've got plenty of oil for the rest of our... and our childrens' lives. In that time we just keep trying for new technology and new fuel.

Ethanol ain't the answer...
Solar ain't the answer...
Hydrogen could be the answer but you still have to make the hydrogen somehow and right now the only way is through old-fashioned dirty-air technology.

Let's at least threaten to start drilling in the US and watch the speculators (those really driving up the oil prices) start pulling back on their speculation. We may never see $40 a barrel again... but I'm confident we'd get it under $70 pretty quickly.

Yeah, let's burn our food. That's smart. The price of corn is triple what it was 3 years ago and yet we still just passed another farm subsidy bill, overriding the moron in charge.

I was discussing this with my wife last night on our run. Unfortunately, we're getting to the point where the tree huggers will be in enough pain that they'll forget their "cheap gas" philosophies and stop roadblocking domestic drilling.

They'll also forget all about how "dangerous" (Yeah, right) nuclear power is when they start paying $1000 a month electric bills.

Like it or not (I don't) the future is in nuclear powered electricity. There isn't enough wind, water and waves to make all we need.

We need research into better electrical storage such as better batteries and ultra capacitors. I think that carbon nanotubes will help us in the capacitor arena.

We're facing a different world, folks. There's only so much oil and the closer we get to the bottom of the barrel, the more it will cost. And it's exacerbated by 2 billion Chinese all wanting to live the good life and drive cars.

I predict some rough times ahead and some massive paradigm shifts before things get better.

Thank God I'm a rich copywriter and don't care about the price of oil

Subtle,

One question.

Why doesn't the company guarantee performance?

http://www.hydro4000.com/warranty.htm

I see...you're more in to discussing what other people are saying or doing as opposed to talking about the idea and concept itself.

Dude...I mentioned mythbusters once.

The rest of my comments had nothing to do with mythbusters. It was directly about the subject of this post.

You're 'proof' on the other hand, discusses an entirely different method, and has nothing to do with this post.

American farmers will ramp up production and supply will again exceed demand for corn in a few years. It's a commodity business driven by basic economics.

I raise corn and soybeans, and I agree that the government subsidies are absurd. But, if you think agriculture is the only industry subsidized, you're mistaken.

Also, there is enough food in the world that we can burn some. Hunger isn't a food supply problem, it's an economic imbalance problem.

That said, ethanol demand is a result of our over consumption of a NON renewable resource. And as you stated, Bruce, the Chinese are only going to make the problem worse.

Corn is a renewable resource. We can make more. By planting more acres and/or improving yields (constantly happening).

Vin, you and Bruce are correct. The subsidizing is messed up. That's the government's doing. It's almost as crazy as giving builders a tax abatement to take farmland out of production and build houses when people can't afford the ones they already have. Farmers are just playing by the rules set for them.

I don't have any more clear answers than the next person. All I know is that the facts regarding ethanol production are widely misrepresented.

Anyway, my comment kinda lead to the hijacking of this thread. Sorry. I'll stop now.