Now that's the best quote I've read all month, and it's completely true. Glad my 40+ wife has been with me 10 faithful years from both of us... I'm with Deb and Suzanne on this, it seems inappropriate to try and get 6 men and 6 women together in a business singles-only mixer with video training? Uck. Completely mixing the benefits and approach, and the other points are valid too. Comes off as matchmaking and video production in one event, with no specialized knowledge of either demonstrated, and too-short copy on top of it. Well the marketer has personality, and he's savvy, but I think he missed the boat on this particular pitch.

And I'm confused, as a prospect - am I going to date someone or learn video? Both? I'd feel awkward and not able to concentrate on the content of video production, if it was also billed as a "singles" event. Doesn't make sense. I know both niches well, having run dating sites, and being the world's best 'net infomercial producer, but I don't think this combo is effective nor clear re the pitch. Good points, all.

-k

p.s. to fix: the USP needs to be One or the other - dating/singles mixer (cruise recommended) OR video production (at a video production site, not some lodge) .. not both.

a much better USP on the video angle would be to bring together video copywriters/scriptwriters with video production people and/or greenscreen talent, eg people from the same industry. But not just generic "singles making videos" -- ineffective pitch. Sure, selling 12 seats should be easy, but if done better, one could make these into larger events. Good concept - with a bit of work.

excellent post, Ken! Great insights from someone who knows what he's talking about.

I agree with you...the USP should be one or the other. Although if he's working with a list and wants to play matchmaker--I would think the age discrepancy would set him up for failure.

I'd be curious to know how this offer of his is doing. Train wreck or minor rainstorm?

Oh, NO! I'm just a year away from discrimination! (The sad bit is that I thought I was ALREADY getting it for being short and bald[ing!].)

And Deb ... 44?! Never woulda figured.

For the record ... I do agree that it seems a "silly" thing, at best, to even mention age - for either sex - in his message.

Cheers -
Al

Howdy! Rick Raddatz here.

WOW -- very interesting thread. Lots of guesses on people's part about my thinking (or lack of it) and motivation, etc. We've got ageism and racism in the conversation. Reminds me of a good old philosophy 101 after-class discussion in the hallway, or back at the dorm.

ok.. so now I get to reveal the real truth.

1) BEST POST AWARD: Of all the posts, Ken Calhoun is most on-target. The real issue here is the confusing USPs. I was fully aware of that when I wrote the email. But early June is a dead time for people with families, so it was a great time to try the singles-week idea. I thought I'd toss it out there and see what happens. We got a lot of nibbles, but quickly realized the dual USPs made it broken, and so we directed leads towards a non-singles workshop in July. A lot of people outside the age range called in wanted to be put on a list for when we do a group for their age.

2) HOW THE RANGE WAS CHOSEN: The age-range was a simple decision based on the fact that culturally, on average, younger women marry older men. I'm not saying it happens that way every time, but hey -- if you don't know the difference between the aggregate and an individual case you are losing money in your copywriting. No slight was intended. Dating *has* an age-factor... and so it *was* appropriate. (even if communicated poorly)

3) HOW THE RANGE WAS VALIDATED: The age-range was run past one person -- my marketing manager, who happens to be a 40+ year old woman herself. She blessed it. I even confirmed it with her -- are you sure? I asked. Yes, she said. So although a slight to the sensitivity to 40+ year-old women was clearly made, it was not made by a man alone!

4) MY WIFE SPEAKS OUT: It turns out, I should have run it past my wife. I just described the original email to her and she freaked out "YOU DIDN'T" she gasped. lol. I said "Look, women on average date older men, right." She replied, "That doesn't matter! Women don't like to be reminded of their age. They can't control it. They're very sensitive to it." Everyone I guess except my marketing manager! : )

5) BIG CONCLUSIONS:

a) I should have limited the men to guys making $1,000,000+ after tax profits and women under 25 weighing no more than 115 lbs taller than 5' 10"... then I would have offended more people! : )

b) I will be using this lesson learned in my new book about male and female energy in business, family, and politics. So I'm very glad this happened.

c) Whenever you experiement you run a risk. And although we romanticize taking risks, sometimes (if you take big enough risks) you end up losing on the downside. If, from that downside event, you learn to slow down, take fewer riskes, to be more cautious, then you have probably learned the wrong lesson! The lesson learned here is 2 things -- some women are more sensitive about age than I realized and never mix USPs in one sale.

I'm sure there's more lessons, but I think I touched on most of the larger points.

Enjoy!

- Rick

p.s. I will not be replying to this thread again, so feel free to debate amongst yourselves... this is a great topic.

p.p.s. Ohh -to the person who said that my absence of a reply was admission of something funny going on... I am offended! : ) No, seriously I don't read blogs or forums. I'm on very few people's lists. For the next six months I am working just 1 hour a week as I have a new baby. I only found out about this thread today because it appeared on my google Alerts for EntrepreneurRetreatNetwork. So mabye the real lesson for all of us is to calm down a little, and assume the best of each other. naaaaahh

p.p.p.s. Deb, I would be honored to have you back on my list some time in the future if you deem me worthy. Best wishes.

ok....so Deb was correct about the logic behind that particular event. Which we all knew anyway....right?

Still curious why Rick never responded to Deb's email to him...that's where I said it indicated true intent...

Also curious as to why there were no 50 something men for the 40 something women--if age is THAT important.

Face it, this was a klutzy screw up where men's preference trumped the women's on Rick's list. Selfish and schtupid....sorry, call it like I see it.

Where would he be without his wife's good sense?

Anyway....this whole idea of older men and younger women has been turning around for about a decade. I don't really buy it. I'm just seeing too many couplings of older women and younger men. So this just appears rather archaic to me.

I hadn't really paid too close attention to the ageism thing...but you can bet it's on my radar for now on.

And by the way...I was the first to bring up confusion of USPs. I'll take the credit, thank you.

Disclaimer: This post is solely a reply to the topic at hand. There is not a "sensitive" retort to a "sensitive" issue. Okay, so I'm being a little facetious here, but it amazed me that bringing up a topic for conversation would be misconstrued as "sensitivity."

Let's bust an assumption: I am not sensitive about my age. Most women I know are not sensitive about their age. That has never been an issue for me. It's nothing to be sensitive about. My gawd. The "Too Old to Hang" title was making fun of the assumption that women could not hang out with their male counterparts of the same age in a marketing event, not a sensitive response from me.

The built-in assumption that I was referring to was that younger women want to date older men or the assumption that men only want to hang with younger women at a single's function. (Thanks, Al, for the compliment, btw.) That hasn't been my experience at all. Men ASSUME that younger women want to date them. These days, age--often--isn't a factor at all.

I also wondered why a marketing event had a gender-based age discrepancy. It doesn't make sense at any level. I brought up this thread as a topic of conversation, and I was surprised when some of the men in the forum (and this is purely an observation, nothing else) felt that to talk about it meant we were being "sensitive." Talking about a false assumption does not imply sensitivity at all. LOL. It's bringing an issue to light.

Just to add my two cents here--women/ageism is very real, and I wanted to bring this to the forum's attention so that no one would make this assumption again. It will turn off a certain segment of your target audience.

And...to be told to "get over it" by someone. LOL. That remark made me think one thought and only one thought: "You have a lot to learn about women." I can certainly talk about an issue that affects my gender/age group without whining about it. There's a distinct difference.

Rick, I wasn't angry that you didn't respond. I am curious now, however, why you would take the time to write such a well-thought out post and then say you won't be returning to respond to it again.

Congratulations on the new baby, by the way. I have three children. I understand the time constraints. While the baby is napping, however, I wouldn't mind if you could come online and respond--on a more personal level--about this issue rather taking the "post and run" approach. I'm sure that Suzanne has a lot to say about that!!!

But Deb, I think we've ignored the real victims here. Attractive young single men in their 20s who are struggling to learn marketing. They weren't invited to Rick's marketing singles party either. (I know, women in their 20s weren't invited either, nor anyone in their 50s or up, but I don't care about that).

Deb, this is a fantastic untapped opportunity. I say you and Suzanne and I (and any other single, forty-something women on the board) offer a beachside seminar, to be held at a fabulous resort in Florida, in which we will teach marketing and copywriting to these young men.

We will only take serious marketing students! They must send in an application, with a photo.

Deb, Suzanne, are you in? Hope so!

Janet

I also want to hold a marketing event for 50 and 60 something men...called Sugar Daddy Alpha Male Marketing.

Recent Pic and photocopy of bank account required.

If we want to play on assumptions, I'm game.

(all of the above written tongue in cheek)

Hmm, hadn't thought of that, Suzanne. Great idea. Best part is, we can charge a lot for that one! And maybe we'll be young chicks to them.

Janet