Michel:

I notice that a lot of marketers come here to get a FREE critique, and then they disappear into the night never to be heard from again - not all, but most.

I think it should be a requirement that you contribute something to the forum before you ask for a critique - be it a helpful article, helpful post or thread.

Just a suggestion, Michel...

What do you guys think?

Dale King

Some people like to stay behind the curtain and lurk. While others are so business origented that they don't have time to share their incredible knowledge and advice on a random subjet.

Everyone can't be a teacher.

Peace
Peace

Some sites make you do a critique of like 3 other people or so before you can get one AND they have to be a certain length.

What's wrong with that?

You can't force people to contribute to a community. Critiques are a service WILLINGLY provided by several board members.

Not to mention the fact that many a copywriting project has been landed due to these critiques.

And last, a lot of the people who request critiques are noobs. Making them provide content of any kind is a hoop they may never want to jump through. As a result, many would avoid asking for a critique. Then how does the copywriters board help stomp out copywriting illiteracy?

I think this is a bad idea.

Communities grow because people WANT to be a part of them - NOT because they are forced into participation.

That's my two whole pennies worth...

I agree with Dale.

A comminity member should try to contribute something at some point. There are those that never will and have no intention of doing so. Trade NOT aid!

Giving a crtique is of benefit to many. But if you can get something for FREE why then should someone pay for it. A lot of copywriters do critiques on a remunerated basis. Why would someone pay when they don't have to.

What is given for free is often valued (far) less than when it is paid for.

It's possible that, rather than garnering respect and understanding of good copy and those that provide such services, it is being inadvertantly diminished by peoples' noble intentions.

One of the early post's I contributed to, not one single person that contributed was publically thanked by the poster. Yet, I know if they had followed the advice given it would have surely helped, not to mention saved them a lot of money. The poster may have had a valid reason. But it doesn't take a lot of effort to say thank you for.

As for getting business from critiques, I don't doubt that it works but it's sure open to abuse. I wonder, just how many people get business resulting from a critique?

Best Wishes,

Tom

P.S. I admire those that give critiques and all those that contribute. Thank You.

P.P.S. What about a tipping system like on Warrior Forum?

I can't control who posts what, and does what to get what. That's a bit difficult. So I apologize if a few people disappear. But then again, a lot of people are told to come to this forum BECAUSE they can get a critique.

We copywriters do offer critiques because we love our craft, but also -- and keep this in mind -- other clients come here and lurk and watch our responses, and have hired several copywriters on this board as a direct result of their critiques.

Nevertheless, maybe we should simply ask that people return at least to post their results after making changes based on the critiques. (That's great feedback, and actual results we can add to our potfolio.)

A tipping system? Wow, what a great idea!!! I'll work on that straight away.

Dale, I'm going to politely disagree.

I think by requiring newer members to post helpful articles, threads, etc. you are tying their hands on asking for help if they need it. I understand you're trying to generate new content and conversion, and I applaud your effort.

The other issue for newer members could be their professional confidence.

If you're a newer copywriter who is charging $1-2K for a sales letter, are you going to have the professional confidence to tell members like Mike Fortin, Harlan, etc. that charge $4-10K for sales letter how they can write better copy?

I doubt it. It would be like a major league baseball rookie walking up to Barry Bonds and giving him pointers on how to hit more home runs.

I could see if you want to put a prior posting criteria in place for new members that want to make a special offer. That's a common practice I've seen in the Warrior Forum and a few other marketing forums.

Michel, I also agree with the "buy a beer" or tipping system idea. I would definitely use it.

My 2 cents,

Mike

Mike, you hit the nail square on the head. That's all I'm trying to do - generate new content for the board.

Thanks for recognizing my intentions!


Thanks Tom!

That's exactly my point.

Contribute something.

Dale King

Hi,

so here is my modest and personnal vision:

I enjoy to read this part of this forum (critique requeste), I enjoy to see the Case study that many offer generousely to us, and how each one give his vision.

I think that the more the better.

let them come (and please share your copywriting problems with us).

Dale my friend let see the other side of the problem.

I mean people are perhaps intimidated (I may be wrong), personnaly I often ask my self this question:

Who am I to make a critique on John Angel, Ken Calhoun and all those great memebers work?

isn't it a bit pompous?

and then I say to my self, words never Kill.

may my modest vision help, may my humble idea help.

I think modestely (and I may be wrong) that many afraid to be exposed, to feel embarassed to expose their humble vision, idea thoughts and perhaps this is what that bloque them.

My friends, they are realy nice here, respectefull, and humble.

don't feel embarassed to expose your vision, you are welcome.

if some are patient to read my broken english I guess that they will read to you too, and I will be happy to read you too.

to ask for a critique is a gift that the one who wanted the critique give us, it is a way to introduce us in his world to give us an opportunity to share a part of him and for this I have to say thank you.

the one who give a critique, take from his time, knowledge and meditate the problem in order to help and this is a gift for the one who ask.

the asking - answering is a mutual benifit for all.

to resume because I speak a lot:

if the nice humble people here have patience and give me the gift of their time to read my broken english , then you will find here a reader , a friend, and may be a brother.

let us read more.

this is my modeste vision I may be wrong, thank you for taking time to read me.

I agree with Michael Morgan.

Also, I don't think that flooding the forum with content from noobs is going to benefit anybody. Rebuking misinformation would become an overwhelming chore.

I love the tipping idea and the idea of posting updated results after a critique.

You'll never be able to squash the something for nothing crowd...only drive yourself crazy trying to do so. Control what you can and let karma sort out the rest.

My 2 cents.