Let me throw in my .01 here. I don't homeschool any of my four kids, although we did at times consider it. In my neck of the woods, there is a strong homeschooling community. Here are my observations of HS'd kids:

- With an occasional rare exception, HS kids are academically advanced beyond their public/private schooled peers.

- I have found every single HS kid I know to have outstanding social skills with people of all ages - far better than most kids their age.

- I have found them to be interesting, creative, and disciplined.

I admire the many parents I know who are homeschooling their kids. I could not do it; I don't have the personality for it. I have often wished I were that kind of parent, but I'm not. If parents are committed to it, and feel it's the best decision for their family, I believe it is one of the best things that can happen in a kid's life.

There's now even a college in the US that caters specifically to HS'd kids (especially the conservative Christians). It's Patrick Henry College in Northern Virginia, and has been growing rapidly since it opened several years ago.

http://www.hslda.org/docs/nche/000010/200410250.asp

Academic Statistics on Homeschooling

Many studies over the last few years have established the academic excellence of homeschooled children.

I. Independent Evaluations of Homeschooling

1. In 1997, a study of 5,402 homeschool students from 1,657 families was released. It was entitled, "Strengths of Their Own: Home Schoolers Across America." The study demonstrated that homeschoolers, on the average, out-performed their counterparts in the public schools by 30 to 37 percentile points in all subjects. A significant finding when analyzing the data for 8th graders was the evidence that homeschoolers who are homeschooled two or more years score substantially higher than students who have been homeschooled one year or less. The new homeschoolers were scoring on the average in the 59th percentile compared to students homeschooled the last two or more years who scored between 86th and 92nd percentile. i

This was confirmed in another study by Dr. Lawrence Rudner of 20,760 homeschooled students which found the homeschoolers who have homeschooled all their school aged years had the highest academic achievement. This was especially apparent in the higher grades. ii This is a good encouragement to families catch the long-range vision and homeschool through high school.

Another important finding of Strengths of Their Own was that the race of the student does not make any difference. There was no significant difference between minority and white homeschooled students. For example, in grades K-12, both white and minority students scored, on the average, in the 87th percentile. In math, whites scored in the 82nd percentile while minorities scored in the 77th percentile. In the public schools, however, there is a sharp contrast. White public school eighth grade students, nationally scored the 58th percentile in math and the 57th percentile in reading. Black eighth grade students, on the other hand, scored on the average at the 24th percentile in math and the 28th percentile in reading. Hispanics scored at the 29th percentile in math and the 28th percentile in reading. iii

These findings show that when parents, regardless of race, commit themselves to make the necessary sacrifices and tutor their children at home, almost all obstacles present in other school systems disappear.

Another obstacle that seems to be overcome in homeschooling is the need to spend a great deal of money in order to have a good education. In Strengths of Their Own, Dr. Ray found the average cost per homeschool student is $546 while the average cost per public school student is $5,325. Yet the homeschool children in this study averaged in 85th percentile while the public school students averaged in the 50th percentile on nationally standardized achievement tests.iv

Similarly, the 1998 study by Dr. Rudner of 20,760 students, found that eighth grade students whose parents spend $199 or less on their home education score, on the average, in the 80th percentile. Eighth grade students whose parents spend $400 to $599 on their home education also score on the average, in the 80th percentile! Once the parents spend over $600, the students do slightly better, scoring in the 83rd percentile.v

The message is loud and clear. More money does not mean a better education. There is no positive correlation between money spent on education and student performance. Public school advocates could refocus their emphasis if they learned this lesson. Loving and caring parents are what matters. Money can never replace simple, hard work.

I am not personally involved in homeschooling in any way, but I found some interesting stats...

For one - in the UK there were about 80,000 - 90,000 children being homeschooled in 2003 - with an estimated 20% growth rate each year - that would put the number at about 120,000 children now... (certainly not a large percentage of the population - but also NOT zero). Roughly 1 percent of school children...

About half the percentage of US homeschoolers (not terribly far off and unusual as you suggest Jane).

Here's some more info found:

Social findings

In 2003, the National Home Education Research Institute conducted a survey of over 7,300 U.S. adults who had been homeschooled (over 5,000 for more than seven years). Here are some of the study's findings:

Homeschooled graduates are active and involved in their communities. 71% participate in an ongoing community service activity (for example, coaching a sports team, volunteering at a school, or working with a church or neighborhood association), compared with 37% of U.S. adults of similar ages.

Homeschoolers are more involved in civic affairs and vote in much higher percentages than their peers. For example, 76% of homeschooled graduates surveyed between the ages of 18 and 24 voted within the last five years, compared with only 29% of the relevant U.S. population. The numbers of homeschooled graduates who vote are even greater in the older age brackets, with voting levels not falling below 95%, compared with a high of 53% for the corresponding U.S. populace.

Of those adults who were homeschooled, 58.9% report that they are 'very happy' with life (compared with 27.6% for the general U.S. population). Moreover, 73.2% of homeschooled adults find life 'exciting', compared with 47.3% of the general population.[15]

What a ridiculous generalization. America is so big, and so varied - you can't generalize.

About 50% of Americans now accept homeschooling as an "ok" alternative (20 years ago, only 25% accepted it) - I didn't find a UK stat of popular opinion...

In 2003, the reasons most frequently reported by parents for home educating were: concerns about the school environment (85%); a desire to provide religious or moral instruction (72%); and dissatisfaction with academic instruction (68%)[7].

Options which make homeschooling attractive to some families also include:

Allowing a longer exploratory play-oriented childhood, encouraging the development of rich imagination and pre-academic skills which can foster later academic success

Allowing each student to work at his own pace, enjoy family vacations, and integrate outside activities or current events into subjects they are studying

Incorporating religion, ethics, and character topics not included in most school curricula

Including non-traditional curriculums (see "Methods" below) and unusual subjects such as Latin and Greek

Giving extra weight to subjects of particular family interest such as art, music, or business

Adapting educational practices for children with learning disabilities or illnesses

Providing a legal option for families who wish to abstain from mandatory immunizations.

--

I have yet to see ANY evidence that highlights your concerns Jane - and the only people who seem to really be down on homeschooling have an agenda of special interest (like the National Education Association - largest US labor Union) -

Seems to me like a viable alternative for many reasons and many circumstances - and it also seems to me that it is growing very rapidly in the UK - you might want to keep an eye on it...

After all, the Royal Family was home schooled...

Tim

Jane,

Music...I taught myself the only instruments I know (banjo and harmonica). And believe it or not...I haven't the slightest bit of musical talent. It was all just following instructions. So I suck at the banjo, but I can still play it. And that's all I would have ever aquired from a school or class.

Sports...Maybe it's just because I'm a non-jock. Maybe it's because I was picked on by jocks. I don't consider this to be a part of education. It used to be called "extra-curricular". And I believe you'll find some of the more intellectually in-apt kids excelling in the sports department. Not that there aren't some bright ones too...but prejudices start somewhere. There's always a background element of truth to them.

All the rest...You wouldn't need to know any of that until you learned the basics (how to read). And this is why I say homeschoolers are great free-thinkers. Because by the time they're in highschool, they aquired the skill of teaching themselves. You won't find that kind of skill coming out of the US public school system. They preach it a lot, but they never force the kids to do it.

Perhaps I was a bit strong in my initial post. It was late and I was tired. I'm also going through the painfully strenuous decision of whether or not to HS my own six kids, and this is a touchy subject for me.

I tend to talk in theory, and I'm glad the others talk beyond theory. I wouldn't have made the time to look up all the facts that they did, and I'm thankful for their time. And I can wait to see JP's wifes's book.

But there you have it...all the facts. Now let's go into theory.

Socialization is fine when you do it right. It's devastating when it isn't done right. I went to a Catholic school for the first 8 years. Then I went to a public high school. WOW, what a difference. I can honestly say that my grade school days were the worst 8 years of my life.

But I was scared stiff my first day in a public school. People talked about shootings and how rough it was. Hmmm...I made a lot of friends, and started to grow back some of my self-esteem. But I didn't learn c**p. They were still hashing over the junk I had learned in fifth grade.

(this isn't anecdotal evidence meant to convince you, it's just me telling you where I'm coming from)

I'm off track now...let me get back to my point by saying that you seem to think children will learn to socialize by being around other children. Maybe they need the interaction, but if that's where they learn to socialize, they're in danger of never gaining the skill. Because then they only know how children socialize with children.

But HSers learn to socialize from adults. And when it's time for them to be an adult, they're fully prepared. This is part of the reason homeschooling works...and the numbers above indicate that there's some truth to it.

As a former public high school English teacher in Delaware, I wring my hands in frustration when I WHOLEHEARTEDLY AGREE THAT AMERICAN PUBLIC SCHOOLS ARE A NATIONAL DISGRACE. No, that is not hyperbole; we should be ashamed of ourselves for allowing the pathetic curricula that allegedly make our kids analytical, creative, intellectually developed adults.

Many of my former high school colleagues would sit around the faculty room during lunch bitching about No Child Left Behind (NCLB, or "Knuckle-B," as we called it), and it certainly has its drawbacks. But it's better than the state of affairs we had before, when...

...one California student sued his own high school after graduation when he found he didn't even possess the skills to fill out a job application properly.

And I agree with theeengel that socialization works both ways. Being around people could lead to intelligent, mentally healthy people, or it could lead to Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold.

I have those same reservations others have mentioned about the socialization of homeschooling, but then I reflect upon my years as a bully victim in middle- and high-school. Needless to say, the effects on self-esteem are profound and take years to erase (if you believe that you can ever erase them). What's worse, teachers would rarely (if ever) step in to even say anything, let alone administer help (not just in my case- in many that I've seen). I still remember one 8th grade speech I gave, during which I was heckled by the class clown. The teacher didn't respond in any way at all, even by getting out of the seat or casting a glance. Nada.

And now, when I think about the choices people make in life, I realize that a lot of my interest in writing comes from the fact that it's one of the only ways I was able to have power in life. Physically, I'm not imposing at all, but words have always offered me the power to change minds, change behaviors, and alter reality to what I thought it should be. This may be what theengel was talking about with the downside of "socialization" in school.

And when I got to high school as a teacher, nothing in the school culture had changed whatsoever. Thugs/slackers ran roughshod over the declawed teachers and administrators (who, legally, had few alternatives but to administer weak punishments like mandatory vacation, AKA suspension). Meanwhile, the timid, shy types faded away into the background, invisible to the other students and disconnected from teachers who may have noticed them but were buried under 60-hour weeks (common to all in the English department- I asked every member) and 125+ student loads.

After reflecting on all of this, it's easy to see why homeschoolers outperform others.

Sorry to ramble; this topic is sensitive to me.

Alex Stiner

Public schools are a disgrace almost by design -- the last thing the government and corporations want are too many people thinking for themselves. The schools are there to breed compliant drone workers, for the most part. (Yes, that's a very broad generalization, and there are many exceptional individuals doing their best within that dysfunctional system.)

I don't mean there's some kind of conscious conspiracy to keep students dumb, more like a benign neglect -- but it does make things easier for the people that run the country.

That's why increasing numbers of parents feel the need to at least consider taking things into their own hands.

Ken Strong

I am currently working hard to undo the damage done to me by the american school system . The american school system does not do the job it is given . When i have children .. i will not even consider "trusting" their education to the school system . never never never . The teachers make excuses why they can't teach the kids .. most are not specialists . They all refuse to take tests regularly to even show they are qualified to teach .


Classrooms are over filled and teach only as fast as the slowest kids in the class can learn . The system makes being a boy a bad thing. the condition of the us schools is horrible . it is not teaching the skills kids need to survive in the real world .

social skills ...oh boy ...being the kid everyone picked on ..gave me great social skills ...i am left terrified by the prospect of trying to talk to people . sports ...i wasn't athletic and there wern't that many options anyway . i didn't get the extra help i needed .. acctually i didn't get the basic help i needed .

homeschooling is better .. even though i don't have specialties . the technology today is wonderfull . and there are verafialy cabale tutors for any subject . And i would regularly test my children to see where they where doing well and where they needed improvment ... not at three to four year intervals like the school systems .

normally i would rant on about my visious hate of the school system . the subject gets venom forming in me . i have a moderatly high IQ . i test out very high level in many things . but i couldn't write . I have a very hard time reading and leaning from what i read . though I read a lot now ..And i am working on my writeing . So the combination of social withdrawl because of the daily verbal abuse from those my age . Added to the inability to read and write fluently . Has ment a lot of problems for me sence i graduated .

Generally it is the bright and gifted studens that the system fails the worse .

Ken

I was physically picked on in grade school...but not more than any other kids. I guess it left some impressions. Maybe I'm still getting over my dislike for 'jocks'. (that's weird because in eighth grade, they weren't quite jocks yet...but that's what they all turned out to be...and now half of them are druggies)

In highschool, I was one of the bad a**es. I was reputed to be the toughest white boy there. Thinking back...I guess I could have been one in grade school too. I just didn't know my own strength. But I was always too uncoordinated to be a jock.

Anyway, I'll never forget having to tell my 9th grade English teacher that 'fire' has only one syllable. He actually had to consult the dictionary to make sure I was right...that's how bad the public school system is here.

the scool system was not designed for everyone to pass through and learn what they needed to do . The school system was desinged at the start of the industrial revolution ... based off a military model that was ment to develope officer .. the failure rate ofthe system was 80 percen .. and it basically is 80 percent ... the twenty percent who excel are those who can learn by reading or memorizing what the teacher says,

the system will continue to fail the majority untill it incorperate many different type of learning styles . i personaly need thing explained to me then someone to show .. then i need to do ..then ajust ..and do again untill i am better .. school model .. most of the time lacks the show .. they will explain .. or have you read an explination .. but not show .. and then when you do it wrong .. your made to feel bad . or stupid .

i know what i need to fix .. i know how i learn best .. and the programs i need to look at when i want to learn something .

homeschool or not ..the best thing is to learn how your kids learn and teach them to set things they need to study up in a way they learn best .

and not make them feel bad because they don't learn in the normal way .. if there is one truth about the world .. normal is a myth

ken

Wow! This topic has certainly got people going.

Let me start by saying that my view has softened. And as I said before, there will be circumstances where homeschooling (or whatever remedy) is better than public education - particularly where kids are being bullied and will end up emotionally damaged, deviant or suicidal.

And I can also see that where the public school system is really bad, then homeschooling is a better option.

And I totally agree with everything Delucian is saying about learning styles and how education is set up to teach to one style (which I believe is auditory - most things are presented in words, not pictures, diagrams or "doingness") and not the others. And that's wrong in my opinion.

I also agree with the comments about education being designed to indoctrinate people into becoming worker drones, and that the whole model is flawed. I also agree that large class sizes and lack of individual attention are major issues, especially when the class is being held back by the slowest students. For example, I'd already done 2 years of latin and 4 years of French before I went to high school, so I sat at the back of the class reading magazines for the first 2 years of high school - I was so bored.

And obviously the statistics on academic performance of home schooled people are impressive. However, those broad based statistics may be masking things such as:

- home schooled kids might be taught be parents who did well academically themselves (so an environmental and genetic advantage)
- public education in the US may just be severely dysfunctional and any other education system would produce better results
- people who home school may be more loving, caring parents and already have good relationships with their children

and so on and so forth. I say this not to be vexatious, but just to point out that headline statistics mask all manner of other factors, which have not so far been discussed.

Where I do see homeschooling providing an advantage is in individual attention, and that alone might provide the explanation for significantly better academic achievement.

However, none of this answers my question of how can you educate someone if you're not educated to at least 2 steps beyond the material yourself. What if you could barely read or write when you left school? How are you supposed to teach a 6 year old how to read, or what about when they reach age 13?

And what no one has discussed is the actual act and art of teaching. In the UK, you have to do a 4 year degree to teach in primary schools. Presumably there are specialist skills required around teaching young children, that are perhaps not so necessary when teaching high school. I could teach someone 16+ Business Studies because I have qualifications in it and have been in business for 11 years. My job, in effect, would be to introduce the material and then show them how to learn it themselves. However, far more specialised teaching methods are required for teaching primary school children, and, one hopes, the curriculum is only 50% or less academic, and more about learning how to negotiate life and become observant and whatever else it is that kids need to learn at that age.

Tim - thanks for the stats on the UK. As I say, I've never heard of it, so it's defo not mainstream.

I don't really understand the arguments around socialisation with adults. Surely kids are socialised with adults in their family life - why do they need more of it? And what if you've only got one kid? It's bad enough being an only child as it is, without being alone with your mother/father 365 days a year.

I personally do consider sports part of the curriculum. And there should be a whole bunch of other non-academic stuff on the curriculum as well, like interpersonal skills, how to manage yourself, financial management, and so on and so forth.

As someone with a fairly academic education, I feel qualified to say that academic qualifications should not be the only ambition of schooling. Even if you're not good at sport, I believe you should still do it (for developing coordination, team skills, fun, fitness etc.).

But perhaps the most important issue is that if you're homeschooled, you cannot possibly be getting the same access to a range of views, politics, religions and other cultures as you would get in school. We are already taught by our parents in many things (whether they are good examples or not of what is good to learn), and surely the cloistering of homeschooling means that we are less able to make up our own minds for the simple reason that we are not brought up with any consciousness around other alternatives. And maybe homeschooled people are happier simply because they don't think to question the status quo. So, if you're brought up in a christian family and never encounter any non-christian viewpoints, then you'll just automatically take on board the beliefs of your parents without questioning them. And unless your parents are vetted in someway, then where is the proof that spending all of your time at home is good for development?

Put it this way. If I had had to spend even another minute with my mother over and above the time that I did spend with her, I would be considerably more unhappy than I already am. If she was the only influence in my life and I hadn't been schooled alongside other kids my age, then I think I would quite likely have committed suicide before I reached 16. Presumably, homeschooling only works when the family is already somewhat functional.

I suppose it just goes to show that what works for one family, doesn't work for another. I can see the advantages of homeschooling, but still think it has severe hazards and is not in the interests of all children. I personally don't think it's healthy for kids to be at home with their parents all the time.

Perhaps a better solution is getting groups of families together to do homeschooling together. Or is that what already happens?

Jane