Sorry Ken but you're guessing.

Your scenario is what you THINK would happen, perhaps where you live with
the people you know. But I'm telling you that in my town of 1000 people, the only house cleaner is very busy. And there are people who would love to hire her but she doesn't have the time.

You see, because everyone gets some benefits for health care (one example) that's money they get to keep. So they have that money to spend on other things (such as house cleaning). A very simplified example but I think everyone gets the point.

Not everyone thinks like a businessperson.

So who is it that isn't motivated by profit? I mean, I assumed you were talking about the governemt, which is runned by politicians, which is runned by business in the form of taxation.

I'm not sure why you see the government as some sort of separate branch that has a different set of codes...one they won't break.

Folks, this debate, though interesting, could go on in a never ending circle - good points are being made on all sides. But forgive me for saying this... I say it in all respect - it is superficial and will go nowhere.

Any political direction can only be as good as the integrity of the individuals on all levels who have a decision to make.

You would have to have your head in the sand to not see that we live in corrupt times - across the board. The problems all societies face are not in the FORMS of political expression, they are in the individual decisions, big and small.

No external system will cure this.

Capitalism, Socialism, Communism, Religious Sectism, Etc.. do not protect against this potential failure of a lack of empathy and genuine caring for others, GREED, unquenchable power thirst, etc... on an individual level.

Here lies all "evil".

What I'm hearing here is a unified voice indignant to the mass suffering we are witnessing on our TV screens, and a desire to remedy the situation.

The same feeling from different political viewpoints - this is good!

The first impulse is to point fingers, and this has its place, but...

A cure won't happen through political movements. This Chimera has an infinite amount of heads, that no outward system can hope to chop.

The cure has to be on an individual level, as good examples. That's really the best we can hope for... naturally starting with ourselves.

I feel like we are all more or less on the same page here. Wonderful examples of individuals who live purely can come from all political expressions, religions, and ways of life.

I honestly don't think we can be 100% prepared to handle Mother Nature's extreme expressions, but we can be prepared in how we react as individuals. And I'm not talking about survival kits.

All the religions met here in Assisi twice now, once in 1986, then again a few years ago - historic events.

The goal was to find common ground. The one thing they ALL could agree on that was valid for every scripture, was:

"Do unto others as you would have others do unto you"

This is better expressed IMO as "Love your neighbors, as yourself"

That's it. Simple. If we as individuals can live up to this in everything we do, we're doing our part, and our families, communities, cities, countries, nations, and world moves one step closer to being a better place for all.

Just live with a simple, brutally honest question that never fades: Am I living up to this in each decision that's in front of me?

My humble pennies...

Well written, Timothy.

We argue about these things because even when we want to help, sometimes other forces won't allow it. For example, we want to give money to help the victims, but the money won't do any good for a while because the guy behind the steering wheel wasn't driving in the right lane. So the money we wanted to use to help just sat there while people were dying.

But we gave anyway, as our individual conscience compelled. That's an individual choice hampered by the ones in power. But tomorrow, the ones in power will be the ones that are influenced the most by our individual choices. Your kids see you do good, and learn from it. They see what it means to be kind, and (hopefully) imitate it throughout their lives. And that's how the world teeter totters between bad and good.

Well said, Tim.

Instead of indulging my need to have the final word, I'll end my "contribution" to this thread with words from Rabbi Paul of Tarsus:

Rabbi Paul???

errr. Saint Paul. Paul was a Christian.

...who thought of himself as a Jew and a member of the Sanhedrin.

The term "Christian" was originally a Gentile pejorative applied to the followers of Jesus, who called themselves "Nazarenes" or "Followers of the Way."

My intent in using the term "Rabbi" (defined commonly as "teacher") was simply to hook into Tim's sense that we share a common humanity, and a common fate.

No offense was intended.

This Thread is Sinking...

[As for the self-righteous indignation of so many white americans against any ideology that isn't familiar or comfortable to them, I ask - how well did your elitist, capitalist ideology serve African americans for the past 3 centuries? OK, maybe that's a bit of a cheap shot - but think about it. Surely the economy of the south was built on the backs of african slaves (leverage at its worst)? ]


open a real big book on the american civil war . And note the first price the south and the north paid for slavery . 500,000 dead when the nation only had 13 or so million. And the south was left flattened.

take a good look though ..and you will see in many ways it is the black community that keeps many blacks in poverty . there is an expectation of poverty . so they stay poor. when there are many many ways to improve and get better.

look at the ethnic groups who come to this country. work their tails off get an education and make it. look at the African black who come to this country work and make it .

but the black ameircan who are born her are trained from birth that the system is against them and they really have no chance of making it.. they will always be poor . because they are black .

now. i don't know how many of you read the success and self help literature. But that kind of social programming is powerfull. And the only way to break it would be for the black community to assume some responsability to change it.

Granted i am in white ameica ..what ever that is ... but most of my family immegrated here from europe a hundred years ago. those who where here before and fought in the civil war .. where on the side of the north.


there will always be poverty in america .. as there has always been poverty in the world . the differnce is . there are two groups of poor in america. those who believe they will always be poor because of the color of their skin. and those who believe if they get skill and work hard enough they will get out of poverty . despite the color of their skin .

socialism, capatalism, comunism, whatever government order you put to it unless you work on the beliefs of the poor people and convince them they don't have to be poor . the only thing you can do is hand them a fish every day .

Ken