I love teaching, coaching and helping people.

I love to see my clients excel and do well.

I’ll bend backwards to make sure that I give my best effort to every
job I do.

I try to always give a fair price.

But has this paid off for me? I’ll have to say, “No.”

For me it has always been that the “nice guys finish last.” And to
illustrate this I’ll give you a few examples without breaking confidences
of past clients and relationships—except where those clients have
already done so.

When I first started taking clients as a copywriter and ghostwriter I
wrote ebooks and sales letters for a few clients who are today net
millionaires. You’ll think after they have arrived that they won’t ‘forget
you’, but instead they find other copywriters to give the “big jobs”. I
basically launched their careers and they forget Joseph in prison.


I must admit that this has not been so in all cases. There are a few
clients who have stuck with me from the start to this very day and I
write almost all their copy. They are the main source of my income.


Another marketer once contacted me about his website that wasn’t
selling too well. I gave him a FREE critique not expecting anything
further. Anyway he asked me to rewrite the copy for this website and
claimed that he was happy with the letter. Within a few weeks he
shared his results with me upon which I asked to see the traffic
sources. Most of the website “visitors” were coming from traffic
exchange programs, i.e. low quality traffic sources. The low conversion
rate wasn’t hard to explain.

Anyway he demanded a refund in contradiction to the agreement that I
must be allowed to improve the letter before a refund would be issued.
Anyway, my Paypal account was empty at the time and so within the
time of the delay he became very nasty, even threatening to show up
at my door and kill my entire family!!

Well, that was the breaking point at which I had to enforce the
agreement. Today his smear campaign against me includes a post on a
scam board which shows up as the #2 results on Google search for my
name.

And it has been my experience if you genuinely want to help people you
end up getting bitten—much like rescuing a trapped animal. On the
other hand, there are clients to whom I’ve quoted a price hoping that
they would reject the offer and just go away. And like magic they
become some of my highest paying customers!

No wonder some marketers would teach you to “play hard to get”, “be
busy” and “be tough with clients” otherwise they would take advantage
of you. This is a lesson that I’m yet to learn.

So did Zig Ziglar have the wrong idea of business? Should I be running a
charity instead of an online business? Should I just pretend to be tough
so I make more money even if some people hate me for it?

I haven't billed myself as a copywriter for long. Well, actually I don't at all - but I have been in business for myself for 11 years (on and off) now and I have always been about delivering value and professionalism (even when it was mostly wiping noses and butts in my home daycare).

I have been burned a couple of times and disappointed a time or two more. Just recently someone I've been networking with and helping for over three years suddenly decided she was going to get serious about business and signed up for services way more expensive than mine --

Has it paid off for me?

I'd have to say it has. While I'm not quite where I want to be monetarily - I know I'm happier than I would've been if I'd been mean (or even less open), plus it is paying off in clients that I enjoy working with.

Ray,

What I've learned is that you've got to do business on your own terms.

Recently, I discovered that a copywriter I know was "firing" his clients to work exclusively on his own products. I asked him to keep me in mind as a referral. He did.

He told me about one of his clients, and it would have turned into long-term monthly income. I was intrigued. It was content writing--not sales writing--and would have been a good arrangement.

However, he wanted me to pay him 20% upfront and 10% on the backend. This means I'd be paying him every month that I would write for this client. This could have lasted for years. I wasn't comfortable with that arrangement.

Is this something that people do in this industry? Absolutely. However, I'm not comfortable with a long-term arrangement with content copy. Royalties, yes. Content, no. My idea was to pay him a referral fee to say thank you and be on my way. He couldn't accept that. I wasn't comfortable with a long term arrangement and couldn't accept his offer. Something about it didn't feel right.

Did I lose thousands of dollars by doing that? Absolutely. I just wasn't comfortable with the arrangement. I've paid referral fees, but I've never asked for a referral fee when I've made referrals to others.

For me, it's not all about the money.

Yes, you have to make money to survive, but I also think that if you charge people for every conversation, every referral, and every contact that you make, it takes the integrity out of business. It places you at a distance, and that doesn't work for me. There's something to be said for helping someone without turning it into a long-term client "deal."

Just my two cents. That's my long-winded way of saying that you have to be comfortable with how you do business, and you'll probably learn some tough lessons along the way. Do what works for you.

Ray,

It looks like this guy was trying to use your own contract against you to rip you off.

I wish there was a way to see through all these guys to identify their real character. But alas, that is not possible...yet.

We should probably start tuning up our sixth sense or do more meditation to acquire these special "jedi" powers. Then we can turn away problem clients right up front and avoid all the extra trouble.

Like Deb said, it's your business and nobody can know better than you about how to run it.

Yes true, but not by everyone.

I've had people I took good care of, paid them great, helped them out, and got ripped off.

Everyone has been ripped off. And if you haven't, you will be.

Facts are, when it comes to money or sex, you really can't trust to many people. Sometimes even your friends or family will stick-it to you.

Now, I'm not saying just don't trust anyone. Just don't put anything past anybody.

After being burned so many times, I'm a little over paranoid.

Every now and again I get a really nice client and I forget to get him to sign my terms and conditions before we start work. It is always these clients that give me an amazing amount of hassle.

Ray, I often feel the same way. I help (or do a favor for) those who ask or those I want to get closer to. I have this thinking that if I help others, than others will look out for me.

This thinking has never worked out for me. No one has ever looked out for me or returned the favor. Even when I ask for them to return the favor, I get some lame excuse as to why they can't.

Now I often make someone jump through at least one hoop before I help them in any manner (friend or prospective client). I want to make sure they're not going to waste my time.

I see more and more people becoming very self-centered and when they don't get their way, they cry and run to the closest forum and write nasty words about you. This is becoming practice in everything from business to dating.

Less and less people are standing behind their word, nor do they have honor, let's not talk about taking responsibility for their actions.

I continue to stay true to my myself and come to realize that I'll have to make it on my own.

Good luck to you and stay positive. Don't enter the black hole of Negativity!

Ray,

My view is that giving must be done for its own sake, without expectation of anything in return or even gratitude, and especially not recognition. And yes, sometimes, you even get scorned and ripped off for your effort. If you're going to give, do it because it's right, then forget about it.

Admittedly that's tough. But I believe if you can give in that manner, good things (not necessarily money or fame or specific success in business) will come your way, many times in ways you don't even recognize until much later.

Exactly. Giving to get is not really giving.

Alex

Ray, I don't know you very well but you've been in the biz for a while.

These are newbie questions and problems I don't expect from you.

I can tell you posted this in frustration but I recommend you delete your post. People are always reading this forum and you're inviting people to Google your name.

Seriously, it's Friday. Take a long weekend. I know you are religious so get out in the air and admire the creation.

Recharge your batteries and connect.

And then, revitalized and recharged, kick some serious butt.

And if the guy comes to your house, take out a 2x4.... (just kidding).

Come on Ray, the water's fine!