Tim, thanks - superbly well thought out insights, will apply what you and Peter have said, appreciate it + the kind words....

(fyi, I made some changes to the headline + pitch based on superb tips from Carlton (and I have a lot more to do in the body copy), the guy has so much insight it's life-changing type of thing, in my copy... I had a business-changing revelation, finally all came together for me, after his latest tips... so far my sales promptly went up after using his tips within 48 hours.. incredibly insightful, Carlton) ...plus applying all I've learned from Mike and you folks.. it's a lot of fun to finally "get it". Still much learning to do on my part though..

Hi Peter - hey thanks much, that's a terrific headline, and analysis! Remind me to ship you and Tim each a free copy of the Volume 2 when it's released as a thanks ... plus anything else I can do in the future, to help, I'll do. I appreciate your taking time to share the genuinely useful insights that you have. I owe you one!

I'll test that headline out soon, plus apply what you've said .. I like these hooks you've included:

-ready-to-buy
-prequalified
-simply
-jump start
-2 hours flat
-fun
-specifics, 371K

Your thought process on creating contrast, eg my benefit 371K vs subsequent weak promise of "better/improved" is very insightful...that's the "mechanics" of pro copywriting I always like to learn -- thanks. Good work on present tense in lead/simile, plus comments re subbing adjectives for verbs inappropriately, Carlton gigged me for that as well. You guys are geniuses...

and other USP pitch phrases.. you're good... nice to see solid copywriters here...appreciate it!

btw if you'd like, I'll add you (and Alan and Mike and others) free as a resource link in my new www.copywritingreviews.com site (still in progress, being developed)

getting this letter done and product launched, felt like a cross between finishing my master's thesis and giving birth (from what I understand lol)... but this was my espresso approach, eg concept to production and launch, the whole thing, in less than a month...

doing the salesletter was a lot more work than creating the product... interesting insight.

btw it made my day to hear the kind words from you folks who are pros at this, thanks very much. It means something.

ken

Hi Ken, thanks for your very kind thought -- your copy is so good that I bought from the discount link you provided here: http://copywritersboard.com/viewtopic.php?t=522 ! (And I'm happy to have done so).

I really enjoy being of help, if I can be. I'm always afraid that what Mike calls my 'sobering thoughts' and Tim calls my 'Samurai' art, are too punishing for people not 'in the business', but that's exactly the way I talk and you're about as 'in the business' as it gets. I'm just glad you're not offended.

Strictly 'kitchen sinkism' since I don't have the product in front of me. But I wanted to illustrate the mechanics I use. The headline will still work, though.

I'll try to remember that and focus on mechanics, in the future.

Hehehe, Carlton is good at that sort of thing. "Jump-start" is a Carltonism.

Seriously, that's very generous of you, Ken. Regarding my inclusion, please do, thank you. (www.PeterStoneCopy.com/blog)

Holy cow!

Usually, I only sell on referal and most of my copywriting and consulting clients are names. I find them very pleasant to work with. Michel, for instance. Tim, too, as far as "Success Alert" goes. (Their sales are still at 4%, BTW).

I do sell stuff, but not in 'this' market - IM. I just don't talk about it and for 3 reasons:

First, I don't want to be percieved as competition by potential clients - as though they're giving me secret ideas that I'll steal and take to market.

Second, it would distract attention, or dilute my 'brand' as a copywriter, "And he also writes copy...", but not add anything for people to know. I'm not fond of the term, 'brand', but I guess you could call it brand recognition.

Third, go to Copyscape and type in this URL: http://www.goldenretrieversecrets.com/ . See? Goldenretrieversecrets is Frank Kern's site.

Mr. Kern could have worked each breed in that market, cranking out site after site by simply tuning the copy for each, different breed. But not anymore. He has to open another market and start from scratch using fresh copy. Brian Keith Voiles worked on that copy, now Mr. Kern has to start over.

But that doesn't mean I'm not open to doing other projects, Ken.

Tim has a language translation business and a tracking business. Alan has a hair salon management business.



- Peter Stone

Ken,

You put a bug under my saddle about building a product and I'm asking you and others for help.

Sorry for the ramble, but I think it's the best way for me to explain where I'm at and give you the other answer to your question about why I, don't put a copywriting related product together.

I can research a product by numbers, but I don't have the design and build sensibilities that I think you and some others, here might have. I can research "lamp" and "lighting", but I'm not personally involved with the subject and the numbers mean something to me. Then, I can take that to the top of the search engines and sell. Simple. But...

When I use overture and wordtracker, I interpret the data rendered there to mean that there's not much of a market for copywriting related products. But apparently, I'm researching it wrong, or drawing the wrong conclusions.

Maybe I should research something out of the direct realm of "copywriting", such as; conversion, Internet sales, or something other.

How do you define the heat and ready-to-buy predisposition in a universe that's kind of off the radar?

Then, once I define a universe, how do I figure out exactly what they want to buy? I think I know that brain-dead simple would be the level they want 'it', but... what?

When I read posts on forums, I hear people considering copywriting as a means to an end, but no real interest in copywriting, per se.

Yet, intellectually, I 'know' there's a market to be sold to. Somehow, I'm missing the boat. It's flying right by me. I've always assumed that the idea of me developing and selling a copywriting related product comes from wishful, sentimental thinking. The same, "I'm in love with it, so everyone else must be, too", thinking, that gets so many people in trouble.

I suppose that's because I personally care about copywriting and have some kind of filtering mechanism at play. Really, I don't think any more of copywriting as an occupation than anything else. I just regard it as a personal preference of mine and don't expect others to value it any more than I value being a retail store owner, or a mechanic. I respect those choices, but do I want to actively pursue them? No.

Where's the market that will spend money, irrationally on copywriting related information?

I know I'm asking a lot, but if you and others have the time, I could use the education...

How do you go about product development? What's your thinking process? What are your mechanics?
What exactly might 'they' want at a brain-dead simple level? How do you figure this out?

Thanks for any time you give.


Peter Stone

Peter,

For product development ideas and strategies, Bill Myers is the man. He hates long sales copy, but he definitely knows his stuff when it comes to making and selling products. I think Ken would agree with me.

www.bmyers.com

Ken,

Thanks for the kind offer, I will remind you . Adwords is exciting, and I love seeing tips and techniques from hardcore users - always learn something new.

I have been fortunate to work with some folks that are really making a killing with Adwords (guys that keep their tricks to themselves... except of course from their copywriters )... now I just need to discipline myself to get out there and apply them more often, when I'm not up to my neck in copywriting projects...

Peter - This is just a guess, but I'm basing it on conversations I've had with my sister. She's a journalism major and has written a few articles for minor magazines. She's also wanting to write novels. She's also trying to figure out what she should do.

I started talking to her about copywriting and she got really excited about it. She didn't realize that a person could actually make a living writing sales letters. =:)

My sister is definetely "different" but she's not so unique that there aren't a lot of others out there in the same boat: they have the mechanical skill that's needed to write a sales letter, but now they need some guidance in the marketing aspects.

That's a market that might be hot although I'm not sure exactly how you'd reach them. Maybe get a list of recent journalism majors and send them a "While You're Waiting For The New York Times To Respond To Your Resume, Why Don't You Put That Writing Know-How To Work And Find Out How To Rake In 5-Figures Next Month!" type of letter.

Just an idea.

Jay Jennings
jayATjayjenningsD0Tcom

Tim,

Thanks! I've heard of him, but never checked him out, but I trust your judgement... so I will. Thanks, again.

[quote="Alakazam"]I'm still amazed, myself. If I may suggest, if writing sales copy is a serious consideration of hers, she would benefit enormously by getting any kind of sales job, while she's 'waiting'. It helps drive any schooling in the subject, down to the cellular level. Too, her journalism can only help, once she tweaks her training. Well, it's more than a tweak, but my point is that it won't be 'wasted'.

These are really good ideas, Jay. Hmn... maybe a template package to prospect for clients and part 2, prospecting materials to get a paycheck job as a copywriter for a company.

Keep 'em comin'.


Peter