lololololol! love it!

I exchanged emails with Ryan Deiss a couple of years ago and I am
pretty certain if he's selling something it has value.

He always came across to me as a genuine, honest young man who's
genuinely concerned about helping his clients get exceptional value from
the products he creates and sells.

I would question the wisdom of criticizing a product you haven't bought
especially when you're a copywriter and many of the people you're taking
a stab at are potential copywriting clients.

You'd be surprised how one post on a forum gets around, how much the
players in the online marketing industry talk, how connected they are with
the marketing leaders in other niches, and how one statement can completely
screw up your chances of getting hired.

Being polite is good business.

Kindest regards,
Andrew Cavanagh

Amen. I agree, It only takes one post to change your opinion about a person. Not just for big players, but also seemingly unknowns who could be some one, now or in the future.

Has anyone here ever actually tested an overseas, 'paid pennies' type of copywriter, (and I mean the cheap outsourced sales letters that come form places like India) against their own work, or that of an established copywriter just to see how well it works?

I havent heard of it happening but I'd love to know the results out of curiosity. My guess would be a reasonable difference in response but I figure the 'overseas' writers could be organised in such a way that they've got massive swipe files of letters and headlines, and modify their own work around successful swipes. If this is the case, I wouldnt think their copy would be too bad. Probably a 6 or 7 out of 10, but they'd never get any better.

I've never used overseas copywriters... But I have used low-cost domestic copywriters based in the US and Canada, and I've been very pleased with the results.

I wouldn't bet on folks overseas not improving over time. It may not be 6 months or even 2 years but at some point, several, if not many will become very good. I mean why not? They've proven to be very studios when it comes to mastering any vocation they choose. I would not bet against them.

A few years ago over on Bill Myers board, Bill said that freelance copywriting will not be a panacea of riches once copywriters from overseas start figuring out our use of the English language. Some said that Bill was full of it with his prognosis. As of May 2008, I think Bill Myers is more right than he is wrong.

Hey guys,

Seems to me we're probably reading too far into this. Saying that he "paid overseas copywriters pennies on the dollar" is just smart copywriting.

For the internet wannabe audience who Ryan and "Mr. X" was going after, paying out the nose for copy is a real pain point and objection. So he defused it fast and made a big promise that you can get great results without paying guys like me.

I've written plenty of copy before where I've demonized "Diva" copywriters who charge an arm and a leg and don't deliver results.

And it's worked.

I've had a lot of overseas copywriters contacting me asking
for work.

The quality of samples so far has been very, very low.

So far I haven't seen a copywriter I'd be happy to recommend
to any kind of paying client.

I admire their enthusiasm and drive but realistically it is
very difficult for someone to write sales copy in a second
language for a prospect who's living in a different culture.

I honestly don't think English speaking copywriters have
a whole lot to worry about for some time.

Having said that some of the samples I've seen from
English speaking copywriters isn't too hot either.

Ultimately the cream rises to the top and the copywriters
who are willing to put in the hard yards will develop the
skill.

And that percentage of people is very, very low regardless
of what their first language is.

Kindest regards,
Andrew Cavanagh

I have to agree with this. It's very hard to do this in a second language well.

But having said that I do get hired by international business owners to write in English and they pay someone else to have it translated into theirs. Obviously, it can't be too idiomatically loaded. I can still communicate the end user benefit, the empathy, excitement and call to action but I find myself going through and removing slang phrases that won't translate. There are some phrases I think they have an equivalent for and my gut instinct has been right most of the time on this.

I have been curious about how this trend has emerged. A year ago, I wasn't getting nearly as many of these types of calls as I do now. So there seems to be a reverse trend going on here, too. However, the reverse trend doesn't include copy for pennies or anything close to it.

Do you think it might have to do with the deflated dollar overseas?

I do. But even then I'm not cheap. It's fun, though.