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Cruiser (Offline)
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Default Re: Books NOT about copywriting that help you with copywriting - 05-06-2008, 09:51 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jason Moffatt View Post
I didn't read much as a kid, but I did read just about every Charles Bukowski book when I was 16 to 17 years
old. It was really super easy to read, and I couldn't put
those books down.
I just finished reading Post Office. Amazing writing style. Like you said, short sharp sentences and chapters. Swears a lot and uses everyday language.

If you've seen any doco's on the man you might also notice he writes like he talks. You can almost see him leaning back in his chair with a bottle of Bud and nursing a hangover as you're reading

"I wailed and I wailed and I wailed"
   
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abdellah (Offline)
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Default Re: Books NOT about copywriting that help you with copywriting - 05-07-2008, 06:15 AM

HI all,

I enjoyed reading this thread.

now I want to point an element "short sentences , short paragraph" I am for pithy headline.

but I think modestly that sometime people have to go in a long descriptive paragraph without taking the risk to lost the reader.

a salesletter witch is "story" oriented will face this at a moment or an other.

this is why I think that some Russian literature, can bring very interesting help in copywriting.

the analysis of human nature in the many book from Dostoevsky
the art of telling a long story in some of tolstoi.

unfortunately I havn't got the opportunity to read for many, and I think modestly that there is always some thing to learn from some one who can sell million of " more then 400 pages" books.

should copywriters read the classic?

for my self, I begin by Khalil Gibran, then Dostoevsky , tolstoi, tourginiev, tchekov ..

but later I discovred the "magic surrealism".

I wish I had time to read like I do before.

now with your permission a question :

how could Khalil Gibran help your copywriting?


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Anita Ashland (Offline)
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Default Re: Books NOT about copywriting that help you with copywriting - 05-07-2008, 03:22 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by abdellah View Post
this is why I think that some Russian literature, can bring very interesting help in copywriting.
Nice post, Abdellah, and I am glad you mentioned Russian literature. I read Anna Karenina twice when I was in my 20s and read several works by Dostoyevsky. Oh to have that kind of time again.

Quote:
Originally Posted by abdellah View Post
now with your permission a question :

how could Khalil Gibran help your copywriting?
Unfortunately I haven't read Khalil Gibran so I can't answer that question. Maybe you could enlighten us?

--Anita
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abdellah (Offline)
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Default Re: Books NOT about copywriting that help you with copywriting - 05-08-2008, 01:19 PM

HI Anita Ashland,
I am not an expert in literature, not even a copywriters, I love words and I will be happy to share my modest vision about this with you.
from what I read from Khalil Gibran, I enjoyed the mix of :
1)metaphor in the poetic way .
2)parable.
3)story telling.
4)the use of spirituality.
he excel in description, in painting scenes, he is able to take his reader in some different universes, without making it sound too much
but how this may help a copywriter?
the use of metaphor, the story telling and may be a sermon tone writing style .
but the focus in metaphor may lead to interesting stuff.

here a quote from (the madman) by Khalil Gibran : url
Quote:
You ask me how I became a madman. It happened thus: One day, long
before many gods were born, I woke from a deep sleep and found all
my masks were stolen,--the seven masks I have fashioned an worn in
seven lives,--I ran maskless through the crowded streets shouting,
"Thieves, thieves, the cursed thieves."
Men and women laughed at me and some ran to their houses in fear
of me.
And when I reached the market place, a youth standing on a house-top
cried, "He is a madman." I looked up to behold him; the sun kissed
my own naked face for the first time. For the first time the sun
kissed my own naked face and my soul was inflamed with love for
the sun, and I wanted my masks no more. And as if in a trance I
cried, "Blessed, blessed are the thieves who stole my masks."
Thus I became a madman.
And I have found both freedom of loneliness and the safety from
being understood, for those who understand us enslave something in
us.
But let me not be too proud of my safety. Even a Thief in a jail
is safe from another thief.

and this one from (the prophet) by Khalil GIbran : url

Quote:
Then said Almitra, "Speak to us of Love."
And he raised his head and looked upon the people, and there fell a stillness upon them. And with a great voice he said:
When love beckons to you follow him,
Though his ways are hard and steep.
And when his wings enfold you yield to him,
Though the sword hidden among his pinions may wound you.
And when he speaks to you believe in him,
Though his voice may shatter your dreams as the north wind lays waste the garden.
For even as love crowns you so shall he crucify you. Even as he is for your growth so is he for your pruning.
Even as he ascends to your height and caresses your tenderest branches that quiver in the sun,
So shall he descend to your roots and shake them in their clinging to the earth.
Like sheaves of corn he gathers you unto himself.
He threshes you to make you naked.
He sifts you to free you from your husks.
He grinds you to whiteness.
He kneads you until you are pliant;
And then he assigns you to his sacred fire, that you may become sacred bread for God's sacred feast.
All these things shall love do unto you that you may know the secrets of your heart, and in that knowledge become a fragment of Life's heart.
But if in your fear you would seek only love's peace and love's pleasure,
Then it is better for you that you cover your nakedness and pass out of love's threshing-floor,
Into the seasonless world where you shall laugh, but not all of your laughter, and weep, but not all of your tears.
Love gives naught but itself and takes naught but from itself.
Love possesses not nor would it be possessed;
For love is sufficient unto love.
When you love you should not say, "God is in my heart," but rather, I am in the heart of God."
And think not you can direct the course of love, if it finds you worthy, directs your course.
Love has no other desire but to fulfil itself.
But if you love and must needs have desires, let these be your desires:
To melt and be like a running brook that sings its melody to the night.
To know the pain of too much tenderness.
To be wounded by your own understanding of love;
And to bleed willingly and joyfully.
To wake at dawn with a winged heart and give thanks for another day of loving;
To rest at the noon hour and meditate love's ecstasy;
To return home at eventide with gratitude;
And then to sleep with a prayer for the beloved in your heart and a song of praise upon your lips.
I will be honest, the word metaphor remind me a sales letter from G.Bencivenga , that doc showed us in a thread, in that copy it was about porc, in a paragraph there was a way of describing how it tast and it was realy interesting to read, unfortunatly I tried to find the link by searching the board but nothing, hope that some one will make it.

a better use of metaphot, will perhaps make a difference in a copy.

and even if reading Khalil Gibran don't affect your copywriting, you will not loose your time reading it is realy worth time investement.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Anita Ashland View Post
Unfortunately I haven't read Khalil Gibran so I can't answer that question. Maybe you could enlighten us?
--Anita


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Default Re: Books NOT about copywriting that help you with copywriting - 05-09-2008, 01:57 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by abdellah View Post
I will be honest, the word metaphor remind me a sales letter from G.Bencivenga , that doc showed us in a thread, in that copy it was about porc, in a paragraph there was a way of describing how it tast and it was realy interesting to read, unfortunatly I tried to find the link by searching the board but nothing, hope that some one will make it.
I couldn't it either. The closest I found was this thread that discusses Bencivenga's bullet about metaphors.

Thanks to your post I can now officially say I've read Khalil Gibran. I'll have to read some more on my own.

I also need to reread Hemingway and try some of the authors others have mentioned here, especially the copywriters who have written novels. Thanks for your suggestions, everyone. Please feel free to add more.

--Anita
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Default Re: Books NOT about copywriting that help you with copywriting - 05-09-2008, 02:22 PM

Anita, Abdellah

I searched for the GB thread to no avail myself... Harlan has a video where he breaks down that piece of copy. I also looked for the letter online and couldn't dig it up, but I have a copy of it as an email. I'll forward to you if you'd like - PM me.
   
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Kyle Tully (Offline)
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Default Re: Books NOT about copywriting that help you with copywriting - 05-09-2008, 09:00 PM

Here is the Bencivenga ham letter:

Holiday Ham Offer
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Deb Holder (Offline)
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Default Re: Books NOT about copywriting that help you with copywriting - 05-09-2008, 09:23 PM

Here are a few of my many favorites:

Animal Farm by George Orwell
"Howl" by Allen Ginsberg is my all-time favorite poem.
One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest by Ken Kesey
Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance by Robert M. Pirsig
Tuesdays With Morrie by Mitch Albom
Anything by the Dalai Lama and Thich Nhat Hahn

and..........

Here are two that I started but haven't had time to finish. They've been collecting dust on my shelf for a few years. I'm not sure if they pertain to copywriting, so I'll have to get back to you:

Capote by Gerald Clarke
The Electric Kool-Aid Acid Test by Tom Wolfe

Thanks, Anita, for starting this thread. I'm going to finish my work tonight and read for pleasure for the first time in a long time!

Here's an interesting quote from Animal Farm:

"Man is the only creature that consumes without producing. He does not give milk, he does not lay eggs, he is too weak to pull the plough, he cannot run fast enough to catch rabbits. Yet he is lord of all the animals. He sets them to work, he gives back to them the bare minimum that will prevent them from starving, and the rest he keeps for himself."
- George Orwell, Animal Farm, Ch. 1

Last edited by Deb Holder : 05-09-2008 at 09:30 PM.
   
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Default Re: Books NOT about copywriting that help you with copywriting - 05-10-2008, 06:21 AM

Well done Kyle for posting the link for the "Ham Letter" - I was trying to - but didn't know how.

To see more of Gary's amazing copy all you have to do is sign up for the Rosengarten Report.

Welcome to the Rosengarten Report

When it arrives in your email box - stop whatever you're doing - sit back and just enjoy reading it.

It's as you would expect, outstandingly good.


Steve
   
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Default Re: Books NOT about copywriting that help you with copywriting - 05-10-2008, 06:23 AM

Wow, I've just noticed for the first time ever - I've actually done a "link" to a website.

Maybe, I will become an internet guru now.

Then again perhaps not - best leave it to the experts.

Steve
   
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