Actually you make a really good point.

As my copywriting skill increased I spent a LOT more time researching
the product and the prospects who would be reading my copy.

When I was starting out I was "winging it" without even knowing
I was winging it.

Also you have to keep in mind while writing the copy might not have taken me long I had to spend a lot of hours searching for paying clients.

I think a lot of copywriters getting started get excited about being
paid $2,000 to $5,000+ for a sales letter without realizing that a
highly experienced copywriter might invest one or two weeks just
on the research before they even start writing.

And you also have to invest a lot of hours in marketing your services.

I thought about mentioning that another way to start is to be
"cubbed" by an experienced, skilled copywriter.

And that really is a great way to to learn how to write copy and
how to get paid for writing copy.

But based on the quality of the copy samples I've seen the
majority of copywriters getting started looking for clients aren't
ready for this.

Kindest regards,
Andrew Cavanagh

Brilliant post, Andrew. As always! You're a well of great information.

By the way, the post to which Andrew is referring is here:

Disillusioned Copywriter Demands The Truth | The Michel Fortin Blog

I'll stick my head out and give you my story.

When I first started out, I was actually a salesperson. And the worst part was, I hated prospecting. Especially since I had this excruciating fear of rejection. (I still do.)

(If you know me, then you know about the story of my alcoholic father and how my fear was the result of years of him telling me I would never amount to much. But I digress.)

I accidentally stumbled onto copywriting not by chance or education, but by desperation.

You see, I was working on strict commissions. (I was a licensed insurance salesman at the time.) I dove into sales in order to fight my fears dead-on. I also had a young family to support. So I thought that the pressure would kick me into gear.

But I was doing so poorly that my family and I had to eat ramen noodles for months!

Eventually, I was forced to declare bankruptcy at 21 years old. In fact, I remember that time like it was yesterday -- the humiliation and the hurt I felt. In a matter of days, the car company repo'ed my car, the landlord evicted us from our home, and my wife at the time left me.

So I was so desperate to make money, I had to find a way to get more clients to listen to my presentation. I tried my hand at writing letters that I could mail out to see if anyone would be willing to book an appointment with me to hear my "pitch." That way, I no longer had to be rejected.

(It didn't work at first. I tried several times and I was about to give up a number of times, too.)

Then, things "clicked."

I later became the top salesperson for this insurance company for eight months in a row.

Problem is, I hated my job. I hated it because I had a poor territory (salespeople were assigned territories), and this was back in the old days when insurance agents ALSO had to visit every single client each month to collect their premiums.

(My territory was so poor, some paid their insurance premiums with empty beer bottles, lol!)

So I moved on.

Eventually, I found a job as a consultant for a hair restoration company. (Some of their services included hair transplants and surgery, with a doctor on staff.)

My main job was as a patient advocate, where I consulted clients on the appropriate hair restoration method for them. I was paid a very small base salary but with commissions.

Part of my job, among others (and similar to what I did in the insurance biz), was to help increase appointments of consultations with prospects.

That included writing copy for direct mail pieces, display ads in newspapers (with dense copy), information packages, and even infomercial scripts. Which is why I liked the job. I didn't have to do any prospecting.

You see, the way it works is that people first read the ad or see the infomercial on TV, and then they request a free information kit to be mailed to them. If the client was interested, they would call to book a consultation with me.

During my first year, I noticed something peculiar.

The company had boxes upon boxes in storage, which contained years worth of filled-out "consultation forms."

Before the consultation, prospects would have to fill out a consultation form (e.g., asking about their health, medical history, other forms of hair replacement tried, etc).

If a client went ahead, a client file was created. But if they didn't, I would do some phone follow-up. And if that didn't work either, their consult form was simply filed away in those storage boxes.

That's when a lightbulb lit up in my head.

I asked my employer to buy a computer (the only person who had a computer at the time was the accountant!), hire a data entry clerk (from a temp-help agency), and create a database of all these people who didn't take action.

Next, I wrote a direct mail piece. We mailed it to that list, and made a limited-time offer.

(The direct mail touted some new hair replacement procedure that looked a lot more natural than its predecessor, as well as new advancements in the field of cosmetic surgery.)

That's when things started to explode!

I don't remember the exact number, but this little direct mail campaign resulted in over a million dollars in sales.

(Keep in mind that the price range for hair replacement solutions ranged anywhere between $2,000 to $20,000, particularly in the case of hair transplants.)

I even remember on the last week of the promotion, there was a lineup outside the waiting room of people wanting to get a consultation before the promo expired. I was obviously ecstatic. (It was also my highest grossing week in terms of commissions, too.)

Since then, we repeated this feat several times. Many of my dense-copy display ads would get a ton of new clients and patients, and I was doing quite well.

My base salary? $22,000 a year.

(But I made a lot more than that in commissions!)

Now, over the period of a few years, this company grew by leaps and bounds. I would say mostly because of my help. (Although, I must admit that my employer at the time was also my mentor, and he was a brilliant salesperson, too.)

As the company grew, opening several franchises across North America, I was tasked with the job of hiring and training salespeople in them, and consulting their owners (including doctors on staff) on how to market themselves. And yes, that included copywriting, too.

My employer flew me to almost every major city in Canada and the U.S. to conduct these trainings.

Here's the problem.

While I'm on the road training other people about marketing and consulting, I wasn't selling. So my take-home pay went back down to $22,000.

I was getting worried. So I approached my employer and asked him for a raise. (He had hired another consultant to take my place, so I couldn't go back to selling.)

I was working really hard. And the company I worked for made several millions. "There's got to be something better than this," I kept saying to myself.

After a lot of back-and-forth, one day I was called into the meeting room. The office manager then said to me, "You're doing fine work, Michel." ("Oh, great," I said to myself. "I can feel something good is going to happen!").

She said, "I know you've been working hard training all these franchises while not making any commissions like you used to. We want to give you a raise for your hard work and dedication."

"Your new salary will be increased as of today by........

(I was grinning with anticipation.)

"... An extra $3,000."

I said, "Oh, $3,000 a month! Great!"

"No, no," she said, "your new annual salary is now $25,000."

"Huh?" (Don't forget, those are Canadian dollars. In the early 90's, $25,000 was worth about $17,000 US.) As you can imagine, I was furious. And with every protest I made, they gave me a different reason as to why they couldn't "afford" to raise it more.

So I quit the very next month.

It was the best decision I ever made.

I went freelance, and shortly thereafter created a company called "The Success Doctor." (I specialized in doctors since that was my experience. So the name implied "I help doctors become successful.")

I wasn't doing too bad. But I was still eeking out a meager living charging anywhere between $100 to $500 per copywriting project. (These were primarily local doctors.)

But some of them did work really well. My first "royalty arrangement" was while working for a hair transplant doctor in Toronto. I was getting paid a salary plus commissions plus a percentage of the clinic's profits.

One day, while working for one doctor, a sales rep came to the clinic selling advertising space on this thing called "the world wide web." Their services included a web page and a listing in their directory.

Part of my job as a marketing consultant was writing copy in different media to get exposure for my clients.

(I was a big fan of the yellow pages. So this seemed like a natural complement. Plus, since a lot of people saw our TV infomercials but failed to call for our information kit, it made perfect sense to be in as many places as possible when they finally did decide to do something about their hairloss.)

Over time, I worked with other types of cosmetic surgeons. Then other types of doctors (e.g., veterinarians, chiropractors, acupuncturists, physiotherapists, etc).

But as a result of that one sales rep's presentation (which sold me on having a presence on the world wide web), I decided that I should have a website for myself, promoting my freelance work.

So I signed up on Geocities in the mid-90's and created my first website. It was nothing to sneeze at. It was just a simple, brochure-like web page, with contact information. (I later on registered "SuccessDoctor.com." This was back in late '97.)

Years before, however, I had written a free report called "The 10 Commandements of Power Positioning." I used it as a way to get clients to hire me offline -- the report was much like a salesletter in disguise. And it worked quite well.

So going online, I decided to digitize my report and offer it for free, especially if people joined my email list. (As far as I can tell, I was one of the first ones to do this way back then. At least in the freelance marketing or copywriting business.)

The day my own business exploded was when I decided to let other people pass that book around.

As a result of that little book, I was bombarded with quote requests. I was doing some salesletters and web page copy for as little as $300-$2,000 each. Mind you, I also did a lot of free ones at the time only to get my name out there and start building my portfolio. I also bartered a lot.

That's when things started moving very quickly. It was late 1998, and I made a bartering deal for a well-known marketer. I did his long web copy for just $2,000 in exchange for getting referrals from him and for publishing my articles to his list, which was part of our arrangement.

And the rest, as they say, is history.

Bottom line, it does take work. And there's no such thing as "overnight riches." Thinking that this happens when you first start out as a copywriter is an illusion. It took me the better part of 20 years to get to where I am today.

However, with so much training and information available, it shouldn’t take that long for anyone with enough gumption, bouncebackability, and the right attitude to get there.

It may have taken me 20 years, but knowing what I now know, I can safely say that, if I were to lose everything overnight once again, I can easily make it all back -- and then some -- and do it in a lot less time.

To echo something my friend the late, great Gary Halbert once said, "If you're a good copywriter, there's no reason why you should be starving."

Again, thanks everyone for such great information! And thanks, Andrew, for an amazing thread.

I appreciate you.

That is such a great post Michel.

And just in case anybody missed it Michel wrote:

"I was still eeking out a meager living charging anywhere
between $100 to $500 per copywriting project."

That should give some heart to copywriters struggling to
make good money.

It can take time to develop both the copywriting skill and
the marketing skill.

I honestly believe it is easier to make a living as an online
copywriter now if you have a good level of skill.

There are now a large number of online entrepreneurs who
know they need a copywriter and have a good idea of what
they should expect to pay for a good one.

According to a recent survey the industry average fee for
an online sales letter is $2,500-$3,000.

If you're having trouble getting $1,000 to $2,000 to write
a sales letter there's probably something wrong with the
quality of your copy (I suggest you get more copywriting
experience selling online marketing services to local business
owners but I've already mentioned that).

Also note how Michel mentioned he did a lot of bartering.

If you're getting started writing copy this is an absolutely
fantastic way to get some of the things you want free, build
credibility and samples you can show prospects.

I got my foot in the door with a major marketer by bartering
my copy for some of the products he was selling.

Kindest regards,
Andrew Cavanagh

This is an amazing thread. And a pretty important one. Thanks Andrew.

And Michel...your story is amazing. You've lived several lifetimes...

I'm reading people's stories here with great interest.

Andrew, great stuff.

Here's my story...

I started using direct response copy and marketing
in my failing real estate sales business. As soon as I
began using direct response strategies my income
increased by 600%.

Using my new knowledge of direct response I put
together a marketing campaign that ran for five years
to the tune of over $25,000,000 in sales.

After getting bored with real estate sales I dabbled in
real estate investing, note brokering and the mortgage
business. I used direct response copy and marketing to
create a campaign in the mortgage market that ran for
three years and resulted in almost $14,000,000 in sales.

Even though those numbers sound impressive, I didn't
make nearly enough money working for someone else.

At some point I started reading The Gary Halbert Letter
and decided I would become a copywriter.

My first gig paid out a paltry $200.

Then, I made a concerted effort to promote myself.
Within a couple of weeks I landed some heavy duty clients
like Michel, for instance, and I was off to the races.

The main reason they hired me is because I had solid
samples of copy I had used in the real world.

Here's the part where newbies should cover their ears...

From the time I got bit by the copywriting and mail order
bug, to the time I was good enough to make money, it took
something like a year.

I would spend one hour or so per day writing out sales
letters in my own handwriting. I would read sales letters
during lunch breaks. I would read The Gary Halbert Letter
voraciously. I would respond to every direct response ad
I read in the newspaper, magazines, online, etc.

In short, I immersed myself in this stuff.

My personal opinion about making a success of anything is
this...

20% or less of the people that choose any path in life
will succeed. The other 80%+ will not.

That's just the way it is.

Find out quickly if copywriting is for you or not.

If not fail fast and move on to something else. Life's too
short to sweat it. Notice earlier in this post how many
different things I did before finding my "true love".

Careerwise.

Another important point...

Besides writing a lot of copy and reading a lot of copy,
the other things to do are...

1. Read books on salesmanship

2. Create a marketing campaign to promote yourself
and do something daily to get the word out.

3. This is really important: Fall in love with selling,
marketing and direct response. You can't succeed at
something that you don't like. And I can't tell you how
many people I know (just by reading their posts) who
hate to get sold... hate to get promotional emails... hate
to get "junk" mail.

You can't get good at this until and unless you fall in love
with ALL of it. And immerse yourself 100%.

Here's a good test to know if this is right for you...

How many things have you bought thru direct marketing
and direct selling in the past year?

If you think selling and marketing are beneath you. If you
don't like the product launches stuffing your inbox. If you
can't stand to see another sales pitch or advertisement...

Then...

How in the hell can you expect to have the enthusiasm to
write a sales pitch that's supposed to get someone to buy
something?

Just somethin' to think about.

Good luck.

Thanks to all of you who have shared your stories. You can't imagine what a help this thread is. And a special thanks to you, Andrew, for starting the thread. You're all great examples and role models.

Great thread and great stories, everyone. Thank you as well.

Now who else wants to hear the story of, say, Mr. Subtle?

This quite right, you've given me an idea

I could write the copy for GP surgeries and health centres.

I would well placed to do so as an Ex Practice Manager and knowing what their needs are in terms of patient information. I have experience of writing medical brochures, practice leaflets and posters and had some published in National Journals. Ironically I did this (as many PM's do) as part of the job. It never occurred to me someone else could be hired or should be, to do this. I wrote the copy for all the businesses I worked for. I never even gave it that much thought.

But, I do know that as you say above, they would pay for it to be done, as they get funding for such things. It's just a case of making them aware there is someone out there in the field doing it.

There were't many pro's specialising specifically in GP copy/marketing products when I was a PM. I recall trying to find a website designer and found ONE who might be suitable. He was suitable because he was a real life Doctor and as such knew what the needs were and would need less hand holding and input.

I shall give this idea more thought, thanks for the article and the inspiration!

Michel,

I read your post to the disgruntled copywriter and felt that it was a brilliant reply. Thank you--and everyone else--for sharing.

Okay, I'm not exactly a brand new copywriter but I haven't been around for 20 years either, so it may help newer writers understand what it feels like to be in the middle of building a copywriting business. I'm going to tell you how I started and where I'm at this moment.

I actually got involved in Internet marketing about 12 years ago. I thought "BIG" then, and started marketing a product about how to start a home-based business. I didn't want a small informational product; I wanted to market something that was huge. It took nine months working 12-hour days to develop this product.

Against all the advice that suggested to make this first project small and very targeted--such as how to start a writing business, secretarial business, etc.--I spent months working on my home study course, a general course about starting a business. I was dirt poor at the time, but I spent my money advertising is biz op magazines, I leased a credit card machine, and got a 1-800 number. Instead of starting small, I developed a complex system.

I have always been very entrepreneurial, so this was perfect--or so I thought. I was having a blast creating this product, marketing it (and I use that term loosely now), and talking to vendors from all over the country. I launched my product and made a whopping sale of one! I worked months on this product but that didn't discourage me until the bills started rolling in. I had no money to pay for the lease on my credit card machine and my phone bill was more than $800! I had to pay per call, and no one tells you that you get crank calls from weirdos, "burping" calls, and calls where the connection is made but the caller says nothing. This was a very expensive lesson for me.

Right after that I went back to college and put my dreams aside for awhile. And, it was the right choice for me. I couldn't get a writing job, but I was recruited by a college to teach part time in WV, which led to my full time teaching job in SC.

A couple years ago, I knew I had to get back on track. I've always wanted to write for a living and work in the self-help niche. I can thank that "out of the blue" AWAI e-mail I received to put me back on track, even though I never had time to read the course. (I finally sold it this year.) I learned more by doing and paying attention to what others were doing. Also, I listened to a lot of teleconferences and webinars.

I joined this forum in July 2006 and had my first job August 1 of that year.
I was actually offered a copywriting job my first month, but I Googled the client's name and the words "consumer fraud" came up. I declined his offer.

So, I was offered another job. Actually two but one fell through. The job? Writing SEO articles. I had absolutely no clue at the time what SEO meant. (JanetB from this forum suggested I apply for the job.) My client said he'd give me a try. He said he'd pay me $200 for the first article and if it didn't work out, he'd pay me a $100 kill fee. That $200 job turned into more than $7000 before I was finished. It took about 12 weeks of steady work to earn that money, but I was a single mom and the extra cash came in handy. It got to the point where I could write an article an hour, so it was good money for me at the time.

When that job dried up (for awhile), I took some time off. A family member died, and I didn't market myself for a few months. Then, I started getting work again. I was busy. I still am.

I have been fortunate to work with top marketers. I studied marketing and began charging $5K for sales letters. During this process, I had more experienced copywriters critique my work. That has been my best education by far. I remembered the one-on-one critiquing more than anything I had read in a book. At one point, I just "got it." I was grateful for the honesty in the feedback I got.

I'm still building my business. I work between six and seven days a week. I work long hours. I work into the wee hours of the morning. I work. I work. I work some more.

My hours are insane because I'm working for others, developing my own products and websites, and having a blast in the process. I'll admit that I work too much at times, but I know that one day I'll be able to have a more "sane" lifestyle, and I'm grateful for all the work I've gotten and everyone who believed in me enough to hire me.

I've made mistakes, and I've had a project or two that weren't the best matches for me, but overall I've been fortunate. The people on this forum--and you all know who you are--who have taken the time to talk to me personally on the phone, send PMs, mastermind with me, critique my work, encourage me, e-mail me, and more recently, create an eBook cover for me when I didn't have the software to do it, have all been instrumental in fueling my passion for this work.

I can say that now when I read marketing books and other informational products, I "get it" more now because I've been working in the field long enough to understand it. Again, I'm still fairly new compared to all the great copywriters who posted in this thread before me, but I think it gives newer copywriters some perspective about the reality of the copywriting business and what it really takes to be successful.

If you don't love this work, you're not going to make it. Getting your business off the ground consumes your life for quite awhile. However, I've been a working copywriter pretty much since I set my mind to do it. I wish I would have gotten my website up sooner--it's still in the design process--but I was so busy that I didn't have time to do it. I finally had to outsource the website design.

I write articles, blogs, and I'm co-authoring a book that will come out early fall--all to market myself. I have some JV projects in progress. I spend a lot of time making personal contact with customers and potential customers by e-mail, forums, etc. All this hard work is having a positive effect on my business. I find strong JV partners to work with.

Even if you have to write something dirt cheap at first, just do it. The best advice I got came from someone in this forum. He told me that I could always make the excuse to study another six months but when it came right down to it, the only way to learn to write copy is to write copy.

I jokingly talk about giving up my social life for awhile, but I don't see any way to have balance in my life at this point. My business is taking off in so many different directions that I have to stay focused, or I'll get off track. I don't think I could do as much as I'm doing if I were married. My partner would have to be very supportive and patient.

I hope this helps some of the newer people who are in the beginning stages of their copywriting careers. It's a lot of work, but it's worth it.
And, in a rare moment of sanity, I'm actually taking my children and some of their friends to a movie tonight. There may be hope for adding a bit of balance to my life afterall.

Well, here's a first

How about I chart my progress as noob about to launch into CW as of this second!

Action Plan thus far:

1. Registered domain name (about 5mins ago)

www.medpractice-cw.co.uk

Business will be to target NHS General Medical practices, health centres with regards to writing brochures, practice leaflets, patient information hand outs, practice posters, web content.

2. I have written letters to ex Medical Practice Bosses to inform them of this new service and to request testimonials (references) with regards to the copy I wrote for them! This will form an important and valid part of my 'sales pitch' to other practices. (7 mins ago)

3. How I will set myself ahead of the rest in this field?

I worked in the NHS as a Manager for 6 years during which time I wrote all the copy as offered in this service. I successfully and rapidly sold advertising space to fund medical brochure production fee's. I wrote killer annual reports which were highly praised by Chief exec of PCT (who I may also approach for a reference) had posters published in National Doc/GP mags and an article published in the Practice Manager mag and kicked off (with published letters) the hugely prominent zero tolerance campaign re practice staff which was previously only applicable to medical staff.

4. My plan is for website to be blog though with the registered name above?

Why? Because Google likes Google blogs more than it likes websites, so I figure I will be more highly placed with a blogsite. let me know what you think of this plan..also I am not very good at web design but can handle a blog!

5. When all testimonials are in, I will design sales letter, and mail or hand deliver it to practices and local PCT's etc with informtion re this new service in their area. I will do perosonal practice visits and perhaps offer first 500 words free. I will work within their practice budget. As an ex PM, I understand their needs and will traget them accordingly.

I know for example their PM while perhaps capable does NOT have the time to write copy!

This is the plan thus far, devised about 20mins ago after reading Andrew's post!

Let me know what you think Andrew

I actually think this could work so will plod on with it.


(In ten years time, when I am asked how it all began, I shall say with a thread on CW board by cartoonman )