Hello Fellow Copywriters,

I’m new to this forum, and I’ve so enjoyed reading through your very helpful posts. Although I’ve been a subscriber to Michel’s newsletter for some time, I haven’t posted yet. I’ve been a professional marketer for years, and recently began freelancing as a Web Copywriter. I’m busy completing the necessary assignments that will lead to my Master of Web Copywriting certification from Maria Veloso’s Web Copywriting University.

I’ve got a situation with a Joint Venture (JV) client that I need help with. The “deal” was that I’d write all his web copy, order form, opt-in bonus offer, the actual opt-in bonus report, online and off-line marketing materials, and provide mega consulting services along the way. I was leasing the materials to him in exchange for a percentage of his profits for 5 years. We both signed a formal Intellectual Property Licensing Agreement spelling it out.

The problem is that I’ve delivered on everything I promised but he has not. He has neither paid me monthly, as spelled out in the Agreement, nor has he provided me with copies of his accounting – also spelled out.

I have sent him many emails – beginning with the friendly “What’s going on?” type, and slowly escalating to a legal-ese-sounding Termination of Agreement where I threatened to obtain a Cease and Desist Order. Although he completely denies violating our Agreement, (without offering me any supporting documentation, of course), I have not received anything substantive in response. He’s been “in violation” for several months, but he’s still using my copy on more than one website in spite of my demanding he remove it. Now, I must either drop this altogether or consult a lawyer.

It is not worth my spending more than negligible money on, and my time and energies are much better spent on moving forward with my business. As I said, I didn’t write these materials for the payoff. He’s a newbie entrepreneur with a great idea, but his site generates very little traffic. I accepted the JV because I was anxious to create a sample of my JV copywriting to put into my site portfolio, which I’m still building.

I’m inclined to pay an attorney to write an “official” letter and then drop it and move on. But it galls me that someone can use my services for their own gain and simply get away with it. I’ll definitely pitch the copy and materials I’ve written to all of his competitors, but if they bite, they’ll be using copy someone else has online already. I’d appreciate any advice/expertise you might have.

TIA,
Jazzmine

Jazzmine,

Great news... we have all been there, done it and worn the t-shirt, MOVE ON.

Forget what you have lost and look at what you have gained. You have gained experience that you wont go through again. Write a list of what you learned from this. It will be a monster list I am sure of that. Also your writing skills. Look what you learnt. Read back on the copy. What can you see that you would change. I bet you would love to cahnge bits. The odd word sentance, paragraph.

You also learnt how to deal with a total moron. How to avoid them in the future. How to create a tight contract and more and more and a whole lot more.

I know its hard. Ive done exactly the same. I can bet you there isnt one CW on this board that hasnt. We wont do it again. Its a life lesson. Tough to take but heck.... good learning curve. Soak in this lesson, you cant pay for that kind of education.

Get this loser out of your mind. Get focused on your next project. Move on.

Jazzmine,

I've had some trouble with clients myself - for example one guy got me to do a load of work and research and then cancelled the project, refusing to pay. Another company went off the radar when I told them that they had to pay for ALL time spent on their project, including meetings and phone calls (because I was charging a very modest hourly rate).

What I learnt was that they were not really committed to their projects, and because I didn't ask for any money up front, they didn't value what I did.

Since then I've had clients who pay up, but who want a lot more than what they've paid for. So I have been going along the learning curve (just like everyone else!), of figuring out how to make sure I get my needs met without frightening off all my clients in the process.

On both this and another discussion forum, the issue of "quality of clients" and what they value has come up.

What seems to have come out in the wash is that as consultants we have the choice to either take all-comers and aim for quantity of business, or we can choose to be more selective and go for quality of business. If we go for quantity, then we might offer cheap prices, discounts and freebies. If we go for quality, we might stipulate how committed the client must be, ask for an advance and charge more money.

What I have learnt is that if you give people things cheap or free, then they always want it to be cheap or free. Cheap-skate clients are more work than clients willing to pay a proper fee. My conclusion is to only work with clients who have the mindset of "this is a valuable investment" and are willing to pay for superior results. This may mean turning some business away, but I've decided that that isn't necessarily a bad thing. Most of the independent professionals I know are either overworked (because they have enough business, but don't charge enough), or are still struggling to get business even with their knock-down prices.

Here is something I learnt recently which sums it all up beautifully:
"90% of everything is crap".

This includes potential clients! I have learnt to my cost that people don't value my time or the effort I make to help them unless I create an air of exclusivity. The trick is to find the 10% worth dealing with.

Your client does not appear to value the effort and hard work that you've put in on his behalf. This, of course, is very short-sighted because he has destroyed the relationship between you and left himself open to criticism and legal action. He will be the worse for it in the end.

I don't entirely agree with Alan's advice, although it certainly has merit. I've had various situations where I've been ripped off and just let it go because I felt I didn't want to be weighed down or held back by it. However, 2 negative consequences of this are that it might get known around the industry that you don't pursue your debtors, and worse still is the knock to your confidence and the feeling of powerlessness when someone just basically decides that they don't feel they should pay you.

With my first client I tried the softly, softly approach which was met with all the usual crap "oh, I didn't get your invoice - please send it again". In the end I wrote him a letter which was sent registered post explaining that he had 14 days to pay or else he would be hearing from my solicitor. I fully intended to take him to small claims, so that energy was probably transmitted! In the end he offered to pay just under half, which I accepted.

Whether it is worth pursuing or not is a balancing act between the amount of money you're likely to get if the court rules in your favour balanced against the cost in time, money and energy of going that route. If he's not making any money, then it's probably not worth pursuing, and that's why he's running the gauntlet with you - he hasn't got any money to pay!

I would also weigh the emotional consequences either way - will it affect your self-value and confidence if he gets away without paying, or are you able to let the whole thing go and move on.

But either way, as Alan says, you have learnt a valuable lesson at an early stage (like myself). Rather now, than on a huge deal later on (assuming this wasn't a huge deal, of course).

HTH
Jane

Thank you Jane and Alan! I appreciate your advice and time very much. I do plan to move on, Alan. I just wondered if anyone had a quick-'n-dirty solution to getting my copy off his site. I couldn't agree with you more about getting on with my business! And yes, I "got" every single thing I'd wanted by taking that job - to create a complete JV package to place up on my website!

I'm not a youngster any more and my self worth and energy never wane. Somewhere along my maturity route, I learned how to put stuff like this aside in my head. But, I'd love to get even!!!

Jane, thank you for sharing your experiences with me. When I was scouting around for a client to do this with, I weighed their credibility very carefully. I knew I didn't care about getting paid - I was hoping for strong, "real" samples of my work and a testimonial about how fantastic a copywriter I am!! But I did have an Agreement, I spoke to him before I began, and we were in close touch by email for months.

I also have an Agreement for paying clients where I won't begin a job without 50% up front. I've had loads of experience with this kind of arrangement because I've done off-line collateral for years.

Anyway, I'm very happy that I have a detailed sample of my work to exhibit.

Thx so much - and I'd benefit from hearing from any others who care to comment!

Jazzmine

I agree with Alan and Jane.

But here's what I would do ... Send a Cease and Desist Order letter (there are tons of "free" templates on the web, such as, I believe, with FindLaw.com). You can send it in your name but make sure to not only CC all the parties involved (including your attorney(s)) but indicate so in the letter (at the top and bottom). You want to ruffle feathers, not declare war (yet).

Based on this agreement, it appears you have full copyright owership (I must see your agreement to really know). But traditionally, copyright ownership is transferred when the account is paid -- or agreed otherwise. In this case, you still own the copyright/intellectual property to the copy. So you have every right to ask them to remove ALL of it. Immediately.

I also recommend consulting with an Attorney who specializes in Internet Law (Bob Silber at http://InternetMarketingLawProducts.com/ ) or Intellectual Property (Bruce Safran at http://www.legalebiz.com/ ). Both are great friends of mine (and attorneys and they can help. Bob Silber also provides online/email/phone consulting services.

Michel, thank you SO MUCH for these substantive resources! After listening to you on that webinar on copywriting with my mentor, Maria Veloso, a couple months ago, I feel like I know you already! Thx for this all you write and share.

Jazzmine

Jazzmine,

Obviously, your attitude is great as are the responses you've already received.

Google doesn't take kindly to copyright infringement. They remove the infringers web site from their index until the material in question is removed from the offenders web site. It appears to me that you have all the information you need to prove your statement that the copy is yours.

I'll look for a link, so you can submit a complaint if you wish. From what I understand, it's not that difficult or time consuming to process a complaint. In most cases I've read, the complaint is from one web site owner against another who has copied an existing web site. Your situation may throw google a curve, but I wouldn't think so. It seems pretty clear to me, but then my name isn't google.

What do you think?


Peter Stone

[Edit]Here's a link to get you started: http://www.google.com/dmca.html. A call to the infringer's hosting company or sending them an email over the dmca might get some action. You may be able to find out who is hosting the offender's site here: http://www.internic.net/.

Thx so much, Peter. I've sent an ofricial-looking email already to his web masters. I told them I was waiting until Fri to file a Cease and Desist Order - and I told them what a shame it would be if I had to mention their name - that they could easily avoid that if they'd simply take the site - or my copy - down before then.

But I'll definitely check out the Google link you've given me.