How do you establish a price before you figure out how long the letter will be?

E.g., what if it is 12 pages instead of 24? Or vice versa?

How do you predict that?

Suzanne,

You're not getting paid per page or per word. You're getting paid to create response.

My price is my price whether a sales letter is 49 pages... or just 9.

Suzanne, if you are writing for print, your client usually has a format and length in mind. Even if it's for the web, they'll often give you an equivalent in pages. If you think you'll need more than the number of pages they allot you for the copy, you definitely want to negotiate that, because that can cause them extra printing and mailing expenses. It sounds like Vin is comfortable going into it, and writing however many pages it takes, and it sounds like he and his clients are happy with that, which is way cool. (I'm assuming it's also easier to do that for online copy and not so much for print copy.) However, working like that would make me very uneasy. I just do not like uncertainties or leaving anything open ended. So I'll usually quote a range, e.g., 12-16 pages for $X.

And I know this isn't exactly your question, but I also highly recommend you invest in Chris Marlowe's Freelance Copywriter Fee and Compensation Survey, both parts I and II. I think they're $125 each. Link is here:
Freelancers Business Store

I bought the first one, and it paid for itself many times over on the very first job I quoted.

HTH.

Eileen

Just thought of one more thing. If you're doing a print package, you want to specify whether or not the fee includes envelope teaser copy, lift letter, response device, etc., as well as the main sales letter.

Eileen

Suzanne,

Consider changing your frame of mind.

Hired hands provide things--deliverables. They provide letters... they provide brochures... they provide flyers.

Hired hands are expenses to be minimized for a business owner. And someone is always willing to create things faster or cheaper than you will be.

Professionals provide VALUE. The value is not the sales letter. The value is what the letter DOES. Length of the letter is irrelevant to value.

YOU are a professional.

You don't write sales letters.

You create leads. You boost sales. You help business owners keep food on their table (or buy their next Rolex

Two very different things.

Never do anything that caps your income.

Always talk about value you deliver to the client. That's all they care about.

If you're talking about deliverables, you're gonna get yourself in trouble.

Because once you do... once you connect a 10 page sales letter with $8,000 (or whatever you want to charge) then what?

After all, what client is going to pay you $30,000 for a 4 page letter?

But having them pay you $30,000 for the million bucks in sales you create for them (with your 4 page letter) is a deal that any client would happily take.

One of the worst things I ever did when I started was to read about what other people were charging.

"Why aren't they charging double or triple?" That's what I asked them...

Their answer was always, "Well, that's the going rate..." or "That's what the survey said..." or "You can't charge more than that..."

If you want to believe that, it's your choice. But it simply isn't true.

All it takes is guts enough to ask for what you want based on the value you know you can provide.

Sometimes you'll be shown the door. That's life.

But if you can ask for $25,000 or $50,000 with a straight face and be confident you provide that amount of value, you're gonna be a whole lot better off.

There is no such thing as a "going rate" if you provide value that no one else can provide.

What is that special value YOU provide?

That's what you need to figure out.

It takes thinking. Something most people will never do. They'll just take someone else's word for it about how much THEY should get paid.

What's the best way to make more money than the average copywriter?

Don't be average.

Some copywriters charge by the word, others by the page and still others by the general project and the results they assume their work will provide. Only you can determine what works best for you.

But I generally have an idea of how much effort it will take to do a job and most always I have a general idea of how many pages of copy will be needed. I don't, however, base my quote on the number of pages as a general rule. I base my quote on value.

There are several publications that give what claims to be the charges of many copywriters (though I suspect they may not be all that accurate.) It's good to refer to them from time to time but don't use them as gospel.

I don't know how experienced you are. But I suggest you base your quote more on value and less on the number of pages. You question is, however, a very interesting one and I'm sure many others have the same question.

Susanna

I see what you're saying, Eileen, but here's the problem I have with price per page copy. I'll illustrate by asking you this...

You quote $7000 for 12-16 pages. Now you get all the way to page 16 and realize you just haven't done the job. You just haven't held your readers' hands all the way to the buy button. You need more pages. Maybe it's 3... maybe it's 13. You don't exactly know.

Do you...

A. Talk to client and say, "Hey... I need more money to do more pages."
B. Stop at 16 because that's what you promised.
C. Write until your writing does the job... no matter how many pages that entails.

IMO...

The only logical answer is "C." As jleister said, our job as direct response copywriters is to get the job done... that's it... plain and simple. It's not the words they're paying for... it's the response.

I tell my clients they shouldn't care if my entire letter is only 10 words long. As long as those 10 words do the job.

Now yeah... offline copy needs a little more precision. You have to squeeze all the handholding into 4 pages, which for the record is HARDER.

As the story goes, during one portion of Mark Twain's many travels, he wrote a letter to some friends. The letter went on for many pages. Twain ended the tome with an apology. "Sorry this letter was so long. If I had more time, I would have made it shorter."

Shorter can take much longer.

So... I have a rate... and my clients are told my rate. If (for online letters) they question... "How long will the copy be?" I tell them "just long enough." And my price is X. "What if it comes in at only 2 pages?" My price is still X. If it goes longer... my price still X.

I'm selling the response... not the words.

Thanks for your answers!

Ok...I see Vin, Jleister, and Susanna are on the same page here.

And I needed to be reminded that it's value--not nickel and diming for pages or quantity--that is important.

I have background writing other types of promo copy...but DM is entirely new for me, so yes, I feel less confident about charging x amount regardless of length.

But I think I will get over that right now.

Actually, it makes life a lot easier to charge one price and not worry about adjusting it or overestimating etc.

oh yuck...can someone help me out of this fix?

Before I came on here yesterday and got my head screwed on straight, I gave a per page quote to a DM prospect that can end up being a friggin' headache (and friggin' low price too, gahhhhhh!).

My only saving grace is that I gave him a list of conditions that stated that he would defer to my recommendations about copy length and timed mailings.

Anyway...he wants me to call in the morning to discuss.

Do I need to just suck this up and treat it as my initiation into DM at indentured servant pay rate?


*sob*

Also---should he be calling me rather than me calling him? Or does it not matter?

He is out of state. Not that it matters except on principle.

I'm just wondering if there is any psychological leveraging going on here.