| Copywriting Discussion Copywriting topics like research, writing, headlines, offers, ads, design, multimedia, direct mail, web, etc. | | Member
Posts: 84 Join Date: Mar 2007 Rep Power: 2 | Sales copy writing + Marketing -
07-15-2007, 09:01 AM
I was thinking about contacting local small businesses to offer my copywriting services when this thought came to my mind.
Many small business owners may not know what they should do with the copy I write for them.
So, would it be a more attractive package if I market the copy for them myself, as a part of my services?
Ultimately, I'll be making more profits for the clients and that's he's looking for, right?
On that note, what are the methods normally used to market copy written for offline local businesses?
Is there a book or resource on this topic? | | | | | Super Moderator
Posts: 1,508 Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Olean, NY Rep Power: 6 | Re: Sales copy writing + Marketing -
07-15-2007, 11:54 AM
To answer your question if you were to market the copy for the clients there is no doubt the effectiveness of the copy would be greatly enhanced being that you have a better understanding of what to do with it as opposed to most potential clients.
HOWEVER I don't know if clients will or can compensate you well enough in order for you to provide this service for them.
Servicing the small business poses a great many challenges and potential frustrations. Below is a post I made on another site in response to someone that wanted to be a marketing consultant to small businesses. "Not to rain on your parade but I'm going to play a little "devil's advocate"-- OK? The small business market (5 or fewer employees with sales of less than $500,000 per year) is in my opinion the "fool's gold" of information marketers. I'm tried my hand at the market at least fours different times, once as an employee of a non-profit corporation hired to put on seminars for small business owners and the other three times on my own. I felt like you and a number of marketers have felt-- these folks need some serious marketing help! The problems with that perspective are as follows: 1. Most do not think they need marketing help-- you may find that difficult to believe but after working or attempting to work with over 2,000 of them that is the honest to God's truth. Most are ignorant to their own situations. Sure it's easy for us, who've studied all the masters from Hopkins to Abraham to Kennedy to look at a yellow page ad for a local pizza shop and say, "Boy that's a lousy ad-- I know I could create one that does 5x the business". The trouble is the business owner won't believe it. You'll be talking a different language than what they understand. They'll look at you like you're from outer space-- or maybe even worse-- France. You may not believe this but it's true and the amount of time it will take you to convince them otherwise will ultimately drive you to other business opportunities. And if this was just the only challenge when dealing with small business owners things would be bad enough... but my friend it gets worse. 2. While you may think they have loads of money to invest in marketing the opposite is more the reality of the situation. These folks view marketing as an expense-- pure & simple. You suggest to them that they should be doubling their marketing dollars and they'll either laugh in your face or will show you the red ink of where they've been "stealing" sales tax dollars over the last 4 quarters to bolster their bottom line and keep their kids and other relatives employed. Yeah, you could spend time educating them-- but you'll never, ever recoup the investment. 3. They have no ability to put in place any of the suggestions that you'll have. They don't have the time, the patience or the management ability. So they won't even bother to attend any seminars because it their mismanaged world their time is already fully committed without considering some newfangled marketing ideas. And if you think they'll pay you to put these concepts in place-- guess again! You're a needless expense! You're "advertising". These people get all of their business from "word of mouth", which is "free". At least according to them it is. Yeah you can educate them but by this point I hope you've come to realize the foolishness of that. Millard if you want to spend some time trying to help some small business owners get ahead? Fine go ahead and do that just don't plan on this being some sort of money-machine that is going to pump 6-figures into your pocket. You don't have enough time or patience to deal with these folks. I finally quit doing seminars and wrote my book, "Killer Techniques To Succeed With Newspaper, Magazine and Yellow Page Advertising" which is basically my seminar in a print format. A couple quick stories... About three years ago Dan Kennedy offered to do a free teleseminar for the national association of independent booksellers-- in other words these are all the stores that aren't affiliated with a franchise. Dan Kennedy is big on reading and was a huge champion of independently owned bookshops-- you know "mom & pop" bookshop owners-- the type of businesses you want to target. Anyway the national association put some real effort into marketing this event. And this was a legit thing. Kennedy was going to give them some terrific information. There are thousands of these bookshop across the country... you know how many participated? 35. Yep. 35. Kennedy was livid and said that he would never step foot in another independently owned book shop again. Just a few months ago Dan was doing a teleminar and towards the end they allowed a few questions. Some guy said that he wanted to do exactly what you want to do Millard-- essentially help small businesses market better. Dan basically said that he'd go broke trying. His exact words were, "You can't help people that don't want to be helped." I wouldn't waste me time if I were you but you're not me so go forth give it a go and the bottom line is that you can't say that you weren't warned. " | | | | | Senior Member
Posts: 116 Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Cincinnati, Ohio Rep Power: 2 | Re: Sales copy writing + Marketing -
07-15-2007, 12:47 PM
Michael,
It's a sad, sad fact but I know that everything that you've said is true. Today competition is fierce. For many companies their products and services have become commodities, selling at rock bottom prices. With shrinking profits many are desperately searching every nook and cranny to add sales volume and hopefully profits to the bottom line.
Many of the smaller niche markets, once the domain of small businesses are being snuffed out by internet businesses whom understand accounting and technology and are efficient and cost less than their brick and mortar counterparts.
Many small companies have resorted to dealing mostly in cash to 'make ends meet' in hopes that 'things will change tomorrow' but they are mistaken. No one today will survive in any brick and mortar business without volume, something most small businesses are not equipped to handle.
The current state is that small businesses are on the ropes and survive on a hand to mouth existence. Not that you won't find a 'shining star' from time to time but as a whole it's doubtful that they many will survive.
Even if they wanted to do targeting advertising with fresh marketing approaches they haven't the funds nor will the market provide the profits it would take to generate such a campaign.
I agree with you. If you are going to test these waters then be very, very selective. There are companies who have 'the right stuff' and are making things happen and in need of a good advertising and marketing. But they are few and far between and may not have that many dollars to throw your way.
I'm reminded of this old familiar saying:
"Fools rush in where wise men fear to tread."
Target, target, target then test, test, test before you commit many of your hard earned 'buckeroonies' to any untried business plan.
Michael | | | | | Master
Posts: 605 Join Date: Dec 2004 Rep Power: 4 | Re: Sales copy writing + Marketing -
07-15-2007, 01:14 PM
Quote: |
The small business market (5 or fewer employees with sales of less than $500,000 per year) is in my opinion the "fool's gold" of information marketers.
| I have to agree. Not just that they won't buy one product -- that many of these little guys won't have the money to become repeat buyers. | | | | | Grand Master
Posts: 1,074 Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Seattle, WA, USA Rep Power: 4 | Re: Sales copy writing + Marketing -
07-15-2007, 01:44 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by MichaelWinicki About three years ago Dan Kennedy offered to do a free teleseminar for the national association of independent booksellers-- in other words these are all the stores that aren't affiliated with a franchise. Dan Kennedy is big on reading and was a huge champion of independently owned bookshops-- you know "mom & pop" bookshop owners-- the type of businesses you want to target. | This is really interesting -- I owned a small used bookstore for a couple of years, and while I always made a profit, I never really made enough to live on. I wish I had known then who Dan Kennedy was, or had known a small portion of the marketing stuff I know now. | | | | | Super Moderator
Posts: 1,508 Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Olean, NY Rep Power: 6 | Re: Sales copy writing + Marketing -
07-15-2007, 02:22 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken Strong This is really interesting -- I owned a small used bookstore for a couple of years, and while I always made a profit, I never really made enough to live on. I wish I had known then who Dan Kennedy was, or had known a small portion of the marketing stuff I know now. |
Hey I was in the same boat with a consumer electronics store.
I knew more about marketing than many of my competitors but not nearly enough to make it a successful business. And then after I started studying direct response in 1995 I soon realized that if I wanted to make really big money that I would either need to have a multi-store retail chain or just get out all together and go another direction like catalogs or mail order.
With the changing landscape at retail favoring the "big-boxes" not too mention the hassles of owning a chain of retain stores I opted to get out. Which ultimately has proven to be a good move for me.
Having a retail store is brutal-- I know of no other way to describe it. Don't get me wrong, catalogs, mail order and ecommerce businesses aren't perfect mind you-- I have hassles there too, but not to the scale of what I experienced in retail.
The biggest difference is that I now get to keep far more of the money I bring in as opposed to giving to everyone else (first) when I had my retail operation. | | | | | Master
Posts: 605 Join Date: Dec 2004 Rep Power: 4 | Re: Sales copy writing + Marketing -
07-15-2007, 05:25 PM
It's the same for Pet Stores and Jewelry stores and bed & bath stores and computer training. I shed no tears when the big boxes put these guys in the ground.
Most of these guys would rather do down on their own terms then succeed on someone else's. To their mind that's what entrepreneurial freedom is. Effusive self-confidence in their own ideas will change economic realities.
Inventors are particularly adept at this "better moustrap" thinking. Unfortunately they rarely actually produce a better mousetrap in the eyes of the market.
Others would rather gripe about the big boxes as the source of their woes than apply the principles of those successfully countering big box retailers. They are every bit like the recording industry and very much unlike the mythical innovative entrepreneur.
These business owners won't hire a marketer for the same reason they won't look up the case histories on their own (for free). And if you put everything into their hands, they wouldn't apply the information. You see, a large segment isn't looking for information -- they're looking for excuses.
With each industry, there is a threshold. For programmer's it's around $115k. Below that, you can't tell them anything. Or you can talk for as long as you want, but it's a waste of your time and theirs. The people who have broken through to the other side of a certain threshold have a completely different perspective.
Last edited by John_S; 07-15-2007 at 05:42 PM.
| | | | | Grand Master
Posts: 1,934 Join Date: May 2007 Location: Massachusetts Rep Power: 3 | Re: Sales copy writing + Marketing -
07-15-2007, 05:47 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by John_S It's the same for Pet Stores and Jewelry stores and bed & bath stores and computer training. I shed no tears when the big boxes put these guys in the ground. | uh oh! I'm glad you said that because I've been circling some of these industries to approach for yellow pages ad writing. I was particularly interested in diamond buyers/sellers (different from jewelers I guess) because they have some big ads, and computer repair service. I was tentatively eying bed and bath....
If anyone wants to warn me--or anyone else-- off of other obstinate industries, I'll greatly appreciate it.
I would love to know who is a complete waste of my time and postage. | | | | | Super Moderator
Posts: 1,508 Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Olean, NY Rep Power: 6 | Re: Sales copy writing + Marketing -
07-15-2007, 05:51 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by John_S It's the same for Pet Stores and Jewelry stores and bed & bath stores and computer training. I shed no tears when the big boxes put these guys in the ground.
Most of these guys would rather do down on their own terms then succeed on someone else's. To their mind that's what entrepreneurial freedom is.
Others would rather gripe about the big boxes as the source of their woes than apply the principles of those successfully countering big box retailers. They are every bit like the recording industry and very much unlike the mythical innovative entrepreneur.
These won't hire a marketer for the same reason they won't look up the case histories on their own (for free). And if you put everything into their hands, they wouldn't apply them.
With each industry, there is a threshold. For programmer's it's around $115k. Below that, you can't tell them anything. Or you can talk for as long as you want, but it's a waste of your time and theirs. The people who have broken through to the other side of a certain threshold have a completely different perspective. |
Hey, I understand the allure of helping small businesses market better...
There are millions of these small businesses out there with virtually all of them not having a marketing clue. A marketer or copywriter just licks their chops at the shear abundance of prospects. But it's the call of the siren.
And I guarantee you that you'll end up crashing on the rocks too.
No marketer or copywriter that I know of has been able to deal successfully with the challenges these folks bring to the table and make a decent living from them at the same time outside of possibly three people, Michael Gerber, Jay Conrad Levinson and Dan Kennedy.
All three used mass-market books as a key component in their prospecting efforts.
To go after that market without a similar way of eliminating the wheat from the chaff would result in a huge amount of wasted time. | | | | | Super Moderator
Posts: 1,508 Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Olean, NY Rep Power: 6 | Re: Sales copy writing + Marketing -
07-15-2007, 06:36 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by SuzanneR uh oh! I'm glad you said that because I've been circling some of these industries to approach for yellow pages ad writing. I was particularly interested in diamond buyers/sellers (different from jewelers I guess) because they have some big ads, and computer repair service. I was tentatively eying bed and bath....
If anyone wants to warn me--or anyone else-- off of other obstinate industries, I'll greatly appreciate it.
I would love to know who is a complete waste of my time and postage. |
They're all obstinate.
Seriously.
But what you are trying to do isn't the same as trying to consult with them one on one. They express some interest in your offer. You talk a little bit. You come to an agreement. You create an ad. You get paid and move on. | | | | |
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