I very much enjoyed tonight's call and learnt some interesting tricks. That is, when I wasn't seething.

You see, there are female marketers and copywriters out here. There are people from other countries. And I don't much like the way he acted as if everyone on the call was a heterosexual, american male. Or his general arrogance. Or him deviating wildly off topic. This is disrespectful of my time.

I have no reason to revere the Gary Halbert's of this world. Yes, I'm interested in what they have to say, in the same way that Einstein might have been interested in what Newton had to say. But I don't automatically swallow or buy everything they say, in the same way that Einstein needed to move beyond Newton's laws in order to evolve to the next level.

If I didn't know better, I would think Gary was older than Claude Hopkins. Judging by his photo he's only in middle-age, so to have such a poor sense of who might be on the call and who might feel aggravated by his stance seems pretty naive to me. Or, that he knows there are myriad types of people listening in and continues on with his egotism and chauvinism is just sheer arrogance. Well done Gary - you earnt it! The toads will love you for it, and how nice to be so cushy as to not have to give a **** about who you offend.

But hey, there might be a deeper issue here. What if Gary doesn't really know how to communicate with people because he's out of touch with the realities of modern marketing? You know, I'm of the opinion that marketing is about communication, and when you can't even hold a teleclass without offending 51% of the population, I'd have to say that that is pretty poor communication. Or was it designed that way? If so, shouldn't the women have been given a warning or caveat before attending? "Groovy teleclass, for men only". It's not good either way. Take the wisdom of the Newtonian principles and become your own Einstein - Newton might be out of date.

Apart from that, I never found out what the "announcements" were or what the purpose of the class was - sorry - got fed up after 2 hours and left. What is the metal object I wonder - a pencil sharpener?

Michel - thanks, you did your best. I'm left with a groan, but that's not your fault.

Jane

Jane,

That is one of the greatest "from-the-heart" comments I have read on this board for donkeys.

G.H., I dont have an opinion on him as I am not a follower but Jane ... good for you, outrageously honest and sure to get a few eyes popping

Honesty is STILL the best policy, Jane.

But from many of Gary Halbert's works, I'd say they're good because they
do accomplish at least one important thing: they grab your attention.

Too bad I couldn't get to that call: I was catching much needed zzzzs that
time.

Time for this donkey to go "ee-haw"...

What did he say to offend women?

I'd say his story about the guy who sodomized a cow, burnt a farm down and fled the scene (for which he was almost jailed haha) was more of a stain on the male gender than anything else he said on the call..

Gary reminds me of a friend I have. He always insults people left and right but has no intention to hurt anyone. It's just my friend's idea of fun. He doesn't have a problem insulting men or women. Reminds me of that quote: "I'm not a racist, I hate everyone equally"

Personally, I think his style is actually a part of his success. You have to have some personality. Be bold sometimes. It humanizes you and that shines through your copy - and let's be honest, how many of us are realling doing that right now? This is not a trick or technique to use in between your copy, it's the voice with which you write. It's the same voice you see in his newsletter - honestly, did you expect the call to be different?

I totally agree with your Newton/Einstein comparison - of course you only absorb the good and evolve into your own (proven to be effective) copywriting style. But I'm no Einstein yet, and I'm glad to have picked up some Newton to get me there a litte faster.

Well, I did mention that "listener discretion be advised" in most of my emails. But then again, Gary said it best. "People nowadays are afraid of having a personality." And, "People are afraid of selling to the foxes as to not upset the dogs."

Sure it's risky. Sure Gary is abrasive and appears chauvanistic (he said so himself). And sure Gary has an ego.

But 1) that's Gary's personality (and he's been like that forever), 2) many women loved the call (from emailed comments I got), 3) and Gary's copy sells like crazy.

Do I like his style of teaching? Not really. Does it mean Jane's wrong or does this justify his actions? Not at all. Did he upset a lot of people last night? You betcha. But did he get his point across? You betcha.

Sorry, Jane. This is distracting from your point and may embarrass you, but...

Look at the writing in her post and tell me it's not first rate. The rhythm. The flow of ideas - each compact sentence bumping the readers beliefs, but just incrementally. Always forcing minute, 'agree/disagree' decisions that lead up to a final "Buy this, now". Good job.

I do think your views expressed here do represent a segment of the population, well. There's some inherant difficulty in hearing this issue, for me. It's a challenge for me to separate a woman's personal politics from human dignity issues. Yes, they are distinct. Allow me to give you an example...

Recently, I critiqued a guy's copy. It's good copy, mind you. The product is weight-loss related and the market is women.

He lost the entire market when he said: "I know how you feel". Now, that's not a political issue. It's not a women's issue. It's a communications issue.

Similar to Jane writing to men who fish -- "Hey all you guys, out there on the water. Ever get stuck, 10 miles from camp without yer chewin' tobacco? Ahh know jist how you feel"...

There's a problem when you ask me to sort through all that, on the fly. So, I pick the easy way... "it's her personal woman's issue, so I don't need to think about it any further".


Peter Stone

For whatever reason, Jane and I never seem to see eye to eye, and this topic is no exception.

Jane, like everyone on this forum, you're entitled to your opinion. But the question begs to be asked: What in the heck were you expecting, when you were listening in last night?

Gary Halbert is arrogant, rude and crass! If you've ever read his newsletter or any of his copywriting, that's hardly a news flash! Genius is often like that. Why did you expect him to be any different last night, Jane?

I didn't listen in last night, because I'm personally not a Gary Halbert fan. However, I do respect his tremendous talent. My god, how could you not?

Jane, I'm not defending Gary Halbert. He doesn't need me or anyone else to defend him. However, I totally disagree with the following statement you made:

I can assure you, there is nothing wrong with Halbert's modern-day communication skills. You might not like his style, but he definitely has his finger on the pulse of today's marketing climate.

What you don't seem to understand Jane is that Gary doesn't care if he offends a few people along the way. That's just who he is. That's the way he's always been. His copywriting or sales certainly haven't suffered, from what I can tell.

If he offends you, you're better off not reading his stuff or listening in on his teleconferences.

Like him or not, Gary Halbert is an original. What you see is what you get!

hello.
Another forum i vistit . people had a few issues with the way gary halbert communcates. i missed the call last night. But there is one thing.
if you have read his posted letters. if you have listened to him at all. What you heard on the phone last night .should not really be surprising.

his self marketing has been done in a way. and the audience he attracts "for the most part" has come to expect Gary to speak the way he does. He has also been writing copy for 30 years .. and his newsletter for almost 20. he has developed his own audience which he can speak to with the gloves off.

ken

Take this any way you want ... But I believe Jane and Gary are similar in many ways, doing the same thing.

They like to stir things up in their own way.

Controversy sells. And like Gary says (and Jane shows so unassailably well), you "gotta have a personality."

While Jane says, "Gary Halbert: Eccentric Genius or Egotistical Oaf?" Some (like Gary, perhaps) would in turn say, "Jane Hendry: Provocative Analyst or Abrasive Activist?" (No offence, Jane, just an example to make a point.)

(Well, Gary wouldn't say those words. I'm being mild ).

Brilliant!