I get email all the time for marketing and copywriting seminars. Dan Kennedy, smartly does a payment plan now for his seminars. He makes it very tempting to put my dough on the table.

My question is the benefit worth the money? Is a Dan Kennedy seminar worth the money? Who else should I be looking into?

I just don't want to go and see a great icon in these fields, I want to come home with something....other than new products they were peddling.

Paul

Depends, have you taken action on any products you may have bought? If you can't take action with the information you found online, then who says it will be any different with a seminar?

My suggestion is to go to someone's seminar only after you have met with some small success through their products first.

A seminar won't make you take action.


Dabney

Paul,
If you are interested in learning from one of the highest paid copywriters in today's market, then you might want to consider reading this.

Yes seminars will help.

You'll be in the room with other business owners.

If you're a copywriter, you should be able to pay
for the seminar shortly after you've left. I got my
first client by going to my first seminar, and later
my biggest client I currently still have I met at that
same seminar although it didn't turn into work right
away.

You won't regret it, just do it.

Caleb,
If I remember right, didn't you go to Clayton Summit Seminar last year?

If so, how was it?

Subtle,
You have every right in calling me out on this.

...but then again, sometimes as copywriters we have to write for products and services that we've never experienced. Either because the copy needs to be done "yesterday" or that the product wouldn't be something we use.

Like when a male copywriter has to write for a feminine product or woman's clothing or when a female copywriter is asked to write for a males product or service...

It's either that or just turn down work evertime things don't fit perfectly.

Just because you haven't experienced it, does it mean that the content or quality is bad for that product or service.

Sometimes you have to rely on others testimonials to know whether it's a worthy product or service.

If it just a scolding I'm getting from you Subtle, then so be it...

It won't be the first time and I can guarantee, without a doubt, that it won't be the last.

In a weird sort of way... it's quite refreshing... keeps me on my toes!

For that I say "thanks!"

I'll still invite anyone here to join me at the seminar... it's going to one heck of an experience for anyone who attends... perhaps even "life-changing" for many aspiring copywriters here!

Hey Subtle, why don't you come along... I'll buy you a drink.

I didn't see it on Clayton's site til just now after editing this post, but my assumptions are probably correct that the seminar he was speaking about earlier in this thread was Clayton's summit from last year.

Caleb, let me know if I'm right or wrong. So once again I'll ask "Caleb"...

How was it last year. Any chance that others might have a great experience by attending?

Some input from someone who conducts copywriting seminars....

1. Certainly, SOME teachers can help some students. Some people who teach copywriting aren't very good at it. And some people just don't have the tools to be good copywriters. (I realize that contradicts the marketing that is done by some seminar givers.)


2. The copywriting seminars that Joe Sugarman taught in the '70s had a major impact on a number of people. I believe (and this is from memory, so one of these might be mistaken) that both Drew Kaplan (DAK Industries) and Richard Thalheimer (Sharper Image) attended.

Which leads to an important point:


3. Let's assume the person teaching the seminar is a great teacher. The people who will get the most from the seminar are the people with the biggest natural talents, followed by the people who are the hungriest to pick up any & all valuable tips and techniques.

I consistently see this at my own seminars. My biggest "fans" -- the ones who attend all my events, buy all my products -- include a substantial faction who are among the best radio copywriters in the business.

They don't necessarily see me as someone who is smarter or more talented than they; they see me as a resource. They have come to expect to get their money's worth from my events, and they recognize that part of the responsibility of getting their money's worth lies with them: All I can offer are tools, techniques, methods and insights. It's up to them to put the tools to good use.

I've never gotten a bad "review" from an attendee who already is highly successful as a copywriter.

But over the years I *have* received a few reviews along the lines of, "What a waste of time! I already know all this crap!"
-- Oddly, those reviews have come exclusively from small market guys who are paid lousy salaries to grind out embarrasingly bad copy. (Nothing wrong with being in a small market. The key here is that they're UNSUCESSFUL small market guys.)

I've never met a successful writer (of any kind) who thinks she already knows it all. Successful creative people always are aware that ideas exist that they haven't thought of yet -- and usually they're eager to discover those ideas.

The know-it-alls invariably inhabit a much lower rung of the success ladder.

As has been noted, one difference between an amateur and a professional is that the professional never stops learning.


4. Seconding junker 86's suggestion, "test drive" a "guru's" stuff by purchasing the least expensive yet appropriate materials offered.

If that proves to be a profitable investment, work your way up the product line...for as long as it's profitable to you.

If you reach the point where you've exhausted the guru's product line and still think he's great, then consider the seminars. NOTE: For the big ticket seminars, I strongly suggest considering only those that offer very strong money-back guarantees.


5. Unless you're a seminar junkie, as a copywriter you'll profit more from attending serious, work-oriented seminars rather than the big "boot camps."

Here's the test: If it's an expensive boot camp with a number of guest speakers, understand that the job of the guest speakers is NOT to teach you. Their job is to speak for an hour, convince you that they can help make you rich, and leave you salivating at the prospect of purchasing their special packages at the back of the room.

I don't say that cynically; that's the model that is being followed at most of the big "boot camps" today. In case you don't know: The guest speaker is not paid to be there and is not speaking "as a friend of" the host. The host receives 50% of the speaker's onsite sales, and those sales are expected to be substantial.

If you've ever attended such a boot camp, you might recall the experience of thinking a guest speaker was absolutely fantastic -- only later to realize you didn't actually learn anything (other than that you needed to buy the person's materials).

I'm not criticizing the model, just clarifying it.

And there are exceptions. Jay Abraham, for example, does not allow on-site product sales at his events -- which can cost anywhere from $5,000 to $25,000 per person. Jay makes his money only from the live registration fees and the subsequent "home study" versions.


6. If you've already done some copywriting and have identified a great guru, consider any small, exclusive classes she might offer. A FACT OF LIFE: You'll learn more in three days if you're among only a dozen people being taught by a master than if you're among 300 people being treated to a show laden with guest speakers.

Dan,
Thanks for taking the time to make a response... all very good points.

I will say that I have bought some of Clayton's products in the past and they are stellar... more than I bargained for.

As far as the pitch fest you were referring to, On Clayton's page, he was very clear to point out that it wasn't going to be such... I believe him.

Again, thanks for your response!

Dan, great post!

I'm personally not a fan of seminars - but have many clients who are - and the stories I hear are mixed.

Some of my clients swear seminars are the greatest thing that ever happened to them.

Others say, seminars are a complete waste of money.

So I guess, it all depends on the individual - their preferences and expectations.

Dale King