Hello,

The theme of dealing with clients that don't like your selling approach has been touched on in several threads.

But I have a question:

How do you prevent this potential head to head, before it gets to a "take it or leave it battle", that can happen with clients after your copy has been submitted?

I have noticed that so many businesses are used to branding as the only acceptable marketing approach (especially here in Europe), or "top of mind awareness", as Michel puts it, and can have a hard time swallowing a direct response approach (even if this is what they are asking for).

Here in Italy, one of my partners offers high end consultations, and it has happened more than once that the business being served will go through days of consultation, creating a new strategy, but in the end, not following through and actually implementing them! We get paid for the services rendered, but what an incredible waste of time and money!

And even though we get the payment, it is very frustrating to see all that energy go up in smoke. So much so, that my partner is fed up, and is considering dropping this service.

Those businesses that have implemented the new strategies that we have offered are flourishing, and we can prove it, but nonetheless, some clients are, to say it mildly, thick in the head.

What are some strategies to filter out the hard heads, so these uncomfortable situations do not arrise in the first place?

All thoughts appreciated,

Tim

Tim,

Can I start out by saying I am NOT going to argue against direct response marketing!!?

Seriously, obviously direct response can be very effective, and works great for many clients and their readers.

It seems equally clear that a whole lot of people, client and readers, just don't want anything to do with the direct response philosophy, for reasons of their own that we won't explore here.

I suggest you might drop the "the client is an idiot" approach (that's not the Tim I know speaking) and go back to the client and give them what they want. If what they want doesn't accomplish their goals they will figure that out on their own, and then come back to you in a new frame of mind, educated by their own experience. Swim downstream, not upstream.

My best guess...

And bill them at every step of course!

Phil

Those that are opposed won't ask for it, Phil. Tim stated how to deal with those that have and then change their minds due to their engrained, branding-oriented mindset. To reiterate, Tim asked, "How do you prevent this potential head to head." Not how to NOT give the client what he wants.

Good copywriting is not about style, grammar or cleverness. And strangely (or not so strangely, depending on how you look at it), those are the first three elements more unsuspecting clients expect from my work. They want 'cutesy' writing that will make the company look good and stroke egos. "Results? Sure, we want those, too," says the CEO.

Here's what I said in a similar forum (Nick Usborne's Excess Voice):

Where Steve Slaunwhite said, "We find the benefits of what they do for our own clients; maybe we need to express it better when we sell our own services," is not an easy task, particularly after a client commissions a project. When you have a client who's more concerned about their job, their approval rating or the next awards ceremony than the bottom line, we then become consultants rather than writers.

Granted, we need to be consultants to a certain degree. And we are. But for the writer who is not prepared to double his workload by spending an inordinate amount of time selling the client on accepting a project, then we need to express those benefits, which Steve mentions, in a way that qualifies the client beforehand.

Personally, what peeves me the most is when the client makes a variety of modifications to my copy and then returns, complaining, "It's not pulling a good response!" That's why, when selling our services as copywriters, we must also comminucate in a way that separates the wheat from the chaff.

So, what makes good writing?

Bob Bly said it all in one sentence. "The only clients who recognize and care about good writing are direct marketers who can measure the results and who depend on copy to drive the sale."

Then, Nick commented on my post:
http://nickusborne.typepad.com/blog/...iters_as_.html

Ideally, qualify the client beforehand. I have a quote request form on my site that asks fundamental questions. And then, once they give me a deposit, they must fill out a questionnaire (25 questions). The entire process "filters" out the undesirables.

That's also why I don't accept royalty-based jobs on the first try with a client. I need to have an established relationship first. I then know what exactly the client wants ... And if I ever do come across a client who wants to change my copy (which, after going through the filtering process, is going to be reduced considerably), I:

1) Provide enough evidence of why what I suggest works (previous case studies, actual results from similar copy, testimonials, etc.

2) Ask them to at least test the copy first before passing judgement. (Remember, they asked for direct response. This, of course, won't apply to clients who've specifcally asked for institutional/educational copy.)

3) Let them change it. And if they return to me, saying, "It's not working!" I tell them to try my copy as I gave it to them. Or swallow the financial loss (the remaining 50% they owe me, for instance). In the end, it's simply not worth it.

Hi Michel,

Thanks, just the type of info I was looking for. Have you seen Nick's 25 questions or know where to find them? I would love to see what he asks, am happy to contact him if you don't have it handy. And I liked his response to the client's woes!

We don't have a problem getting paid, it's just frustrating.

Hi Phil,

What's actually happening here is that clients come to us looking for help, and we make it very clear that ours is a direct marketing approach (for online endeavors - it's what we have found works the best, and we have numerous testimonials).

We offer to improve a site's performance through increased, targeted traffic flow, and copy that makes the most of this traffic flow by gathering results, whatever they may be (sales, newsletter sign ups, etc.). The traffic alone will not do it for them, we tell them this, but alas...

We utilize our own in house tracking solution to monitor all that is happening and the client continues to use it as a part of an ongoing process that we use to help them continue to improve their results.

These clients are coming to us, hiring us to do this (and we are not cheap!) Nobody is twisting their arm. Out there in the business world, everyone has my full respect - they can sell as they see fit (apart the real slime balls, and spammers...). But when they come to us, pay us good money, and decide to do things as they want - well - this is frustrating... like going to a heart specialist, paying him thousands of dollars for all sorts of analysis, then when he/she gives you the remedy, you decide you know better, and use half of them - then wonder why you don't feel better or die.

I know any humane doctor would feel frustrated if a patient behaved this way, and his conditions didn't improve, despite your knowing that they could improve!

Mind you, only a handfull of clients have created this problem, all the others are flourishing, or at least have had very noticeable improvements. Fortunately, the vast majority listen very carefully at what they pay per hour!

This is more my partner's field, but because he doesn't feel real comfortable writing English, I am the official figurehead - we do all of this here in Italy.

I am still the same Tim you have come to know - my post was aimed at helping potential clients - if we can filter them out ahead of time, we will save them A LOT of money that is just thrown away, even if it ends up in our pockets.

My best wishes,

Tim

Tim, it's my questionnaire. View it here:
http://SuccessDoctor.com/questions.htm

Ooops!

Sorry Mike, I misread your post, I thought you were quoting Nick. Thanks again for the helpful reply - I think many others will also benefit from it.

BTW, I liked Nick's response to your post, in the link above.

All the best,

Tim

Tim,

Not too long ago I happily fired a client... nicley of course. To be frank I didnt want to lose the money but he was becoming a nightmare asking me to change just about every other word.

I called him and told him I wasnt the right person to do his project. He wnated me to carry on. I gave him my reasons and that was that.

Now I dont want to end any relationship with a client or lsoe the money from the cleint but I feel I know my job enough to know what works and what doesnt. If they ask me to change something and I do it who gets blamed when it doesnt work?

I dont agree with Nicks comment ... I dont beleive that writing simply to please a client with cosmetics is right. When I say that most clients dont understand the reasons for writing copy a certain way or adding certain triggers and switches. As far as they are concerned it can look awkward or odd. No matter .... they have to understand if they want results there are times when they have to leave it to the Pro!

I wouldnt go to my dentist and ask him to use the 10mm drill bit because I dont like the look of the 5mm! Principle is exaclty the same.

To be respected in any business you have to take the lead and show people you know exactly what is best for them that part of the reason why they pay us.

Bottom line: If a cleint is a nightmare ... cut your losses, they are simply impossible to please

Hi Alan,

I fully agree with you. With the direction of your post.

I thought he was pretty clear about it being wrong as well.

He did mention that he couldn't blame a colleague giving in to such a temptation especially when finances are tight (and that he himself had fallen into the same trap), but then he went on to say basically how it was not right.

At least this is how I read it. I appreciated his transparency. Did I miss something?

All the best,

Tim

Yep I am saying if a client asks me to create a killer piece of copy I make sure they know I am the expert. If they start to ask me to add all sotrts of rubbish and cosmetic if it wont affect response to some extent I will do it. I f I feel it will affect response I wont. If they wont go along with it ... bye, bye.