Is good copywriting based on persuasion, ie. finding ever
more clever ways to manuever a prospect in to doing
something we want them to do?

Or is good copywriting based on service, that is, focusing
our talents on providing the experience the prospect is
seeking from us?

If the later, what experience is the prospect seeking
from us?

Copywriters are of course also buyers themselves, so one
convenient place to look for answers to these questions is
in our own shopping experiences.

What experience are _we_ looking for when we arrive at a web
site in shopping mode? Do copywriters relish and happily
welcome many screen fulls of emotion based persuasion when
they encounter it on _someone else's_ site?

If the honest answer turns out to be that copywriters don't
sincerely enjoy "the pitch" approach when it is aimed at us
personally, then by what logic would we assume that other's
will enjoy the pitch approach when they visit our site?

Could the logic be that perhaps we are assuming we are
somehow more mature and intelligent than our readers? If
this is the assumption, I wonder how our readers will react
to this assumption if and when they detect it in our
presentation?

The expert maxim appears to be that people buy on emotion.

OK, does "people" mean us too?

Do we copywriters also make our own buying decisions based
on emotion, and are we surfing the web looking for people
who will manipulate _our_ emotions for us?

Or, are we looking for information when we shop?

Not them, us, what are _we_ looking for?

Phil

Hi Phil,

I went to a presentation the other night that discussed the selling process. I thought I might discuss what I learnt to see if it sheds any light on the copywriting process. (Let's accept the definition that copywriting is salesmanship in print).

We started with a definition of selling:
1) Selling is the conveying of possibilities (i.e. another way of doing things e.g. stop doing your accounts by hand and use a computer etc. because it'll save you time and money) "helping people do what they do better".
2) Selling is problem solving

Selling is also a process - a series of commitments. For example, when selling a high ticket item in a B2B scenario, you might first want to get the prospect to agree to a phone call. Then sell them a meeting. Then another meeting, then some free advice etc. etc. until eventually they sign your order form. It doesn't stop there - then you want to sell them upgrades or consumables or more consulting services etc.

Likewise, on the internet, if selling a service where you won't get a commitment to buy on line, then you have to either sell them a phone call, or (as in my case) sell them a subscription to my free ezine, so that I can build a relationship and demonstrate that I know my stuff, and eventually ask them to buy something.

This principle must work in off the page sales aswell - you get the site visitor to commit to read what you're saying. Eventually they commit to clicking the order button, or signing up for your ezine. Etc.

Next we discussed Fear of rejection (for the sales person) and fear of failure for the prospect.

I won't cover the fear of rejection because it's probably not terribly relevant to copy (although it might be).

We start with this axiom: Everybody likes buying, but nobody likes being sold to As soon as we feel (feel, not think!) that we're being sold to, we get defensive. How do you feel when you go into a clothes shop and the assistant pounces on you the minute you walk in and says "Can I help you?" 9 times out of 10 you'll say "no thanks, I'm just looking", because you instantly feel under pressure.

Here are some things that prospects fear:
paying too much (you find something better for half the price 10 minutes later)
it won't work out (something will go wrong in the transaction)
You'll be laughed at or derided by colleagues and friends (eg. buying funky trousers)
You will be left disappointed (e.g.it doesn't work the way I expected it to)
general fear of change (having to change the way you work because of some new software)

So, assuming that we have let go of manipulative, coercive sales and locked the door on that paradigm, it then becomes the sales person's job to create an environment where people don't feel defensive. Where they feel comfortable and at ease. We can do this by:

- making people feel comfortable and reassured (e.g. a guarantee, free trial, take their risk away)

- empower our prospects, who often feel weak and vulnerable even though in reality they hold all the cards. If we can make them feel clever, and good about themselves, then they are less likely to look for objections. (It is the logical, thinking mind that looks for objections, not the emotional "I like buying" mind, so perhaps staying with logic is not so good after all).

The presenter also brought up an interesting point that I hadn't heard before. He said "people respond in kind", so if you say "I was wondering if you could help me", then most people are predisposed to respond "if I can, I will". On the other hand, if you say "Hi, I was wondering if you wanted to find out how to save money today", then that is a stupid question (because of course everyone wants to save money) and your prospect will think you're stupid!

I think I have a few internet examples of this. For example, I signed up for a free trial of some software and got a real email from a real person shortly afterwards. Great! But then I start getting the autoresponder emails asking me the same questions, and it drains my energy.

Likewise, another well known internet software company who send me emails saying stuff like "Jane did you receive my e-mail?" followed by "After putting together an offer for you last week, I was convinced
you'd take advantage of it."

Well, I'm sorry, but "did you receive my email" is a stupid question - he knows damn well I received it. And does hassling me with this "oh I'm hurt" approach predispose me warmly to this company? NO! I just end up thinking that they're trying way too hard. What a lot of these marketers don't seem to understand is this:
No matter how good your product is
and No matter how great your copy is
and No matter how brilliant your marketing is,

I will buy when I want to, if I want to, if it's the right time for me financially, and NOT ONE MINUTE SOONER. A softsell approach would have worked a lot better I feel.

Did this approach make me feel defensive! Yes - they were more or less insinuating that I'm an idiot not to have taken them up on their discounted offer with all it's extra bonuses. But the thing is, I don't need their software yet. There's no point in me spending $150 (or whatever it is with the discount), if I don't need it yet. I'd rather spend $200 when I do need it. That is the thinking of a business person - only spend money when you have to, and their target market must surely be business people.

I don't know how you make people feel comfortable and trusting towards you on line - I'll let the pros here comment on that.

Then we went through the 2 basic buying motivations - pleasure and pain, although it was worded "gain reward or benefit, or avoid loss, pain or punishments". Avoiding loss is obviously the most powerful, and the speaker used the example of what would you be willing to do to earn £10 - not much. But how much effort would you go to to find the £10 note that you lost earlier - most people would spend HOURS looking for it. Because we HATE losing things.

OK, are you listening, cos this next one's important:
People don't buy benefits, they buyresults

Now, everywhere I've been I've had the Benefits drum banged at me. He used that hackneyed example of the drill - there are the benefits of the drill e.g. it's cordless, has a lightweight carrying bag etc. et.c, but what I want is the RESULT i.e. the hole in the wall so that I can put up my bookshelves etc.

Any comments on this? I've always been told, people don't buy features, they buy benefits. Is it a false distinction to say results rather than benefits? Actually, I quite like the idea of selling results, cos when I've tried to work out the benefits of what I do it goes on and on and on, and thinking in terms of results seem easier. What do you all think?

Next he went on to finding and identifying the problem in order to create a need/want for your product or service. He posited that DISSATISFACTION is what starts the sales process.

This concept is easy to grasp in the B2B arena if you think of say a current supplier of x,y,z service. You find out that your prospect is dissatisfied in some way with this supplier, so you craft your offer to address that dissatisfaction and forget about all the other benefits of your service.

This is not so easy to do, however, when what you are offering is not something your prospect has thought about using before. In my case, that might be email marketing. It is obviously more difficult to sell your product or service when the market has little awareness of what it is or what it does or how it can help them. Copywriting is another example - most people in my target market get a completely blank look on their face when I mention it - because they've never even thought about getting someone else to write their marketing materials - they spend all their money on print and design plus adverts that don't pull any response!!

Coming back to the presentation - next he explained the Value Proposition. In order to develop the value, you must:
1) Identify the problem. Then expand and develop it in the prospect's mind to the point where action is necessary
2) Demonstrate that you can solve the problem
3) Prove that the problem is worth solving and that your solution costs less than the cost of the problem. In other words, the prospect will receive at least the same as, if not more value than the value he/she is giving to you.

He also made a point of saying that it is easier to demonstrate the value in small sales than in large sales, because the prospect can afford to lose the money if it doesn't work out.

Two points worth nothing from that:
1) It probably takes a lot less copy to demonstrate the problem and value of a $19 item than a $190 item
2) Whether it is a small or a large sale is relative to who's buying it.

So for example, if I was dealing with a company with a turnover of £5m per year, it might be considerably easier to sell them £3000 worth of consulting, than it is to sell a £500 website to a freelance consultant.

I'd love to hear everyone's feedback on how this information can be applied to writing copy and whether anyone has found it useful.

Janeology, wow, you should take your post above and make it in to a little web site. Seriously, you put so much work in to it, and it's such a good description of a certain point of view, I'd hate to think only a few of us here will read it.

I've been too long winded already, so I'll make a desperate attempt at conciseness here..

When you are the shopper are you seeking the experience of
being sold, or the experience of being informed?

Everything you said above is an excellent summary of sales strategy. But is that what you want as a shopper, to be sold, however cleverly and subtle etc the process may be executed?

Imagine the entire concept of selling goes out the window and everywhere you go former sales people are now rechanneling their impressive energies towards informing you. Not persuading, just making whatever information you seek readily available.

As a shopper, how would you emotionally react to this development?

Phil

Phil,

I really like the ideas you're bringing to the board - it's certainly making me think!

Vis a vis my precis of the presentation, I was rather under the impression that I'd given a good case for problem solving, consultative sales as opposed to pushy, manipulative sales.

In fact, the above sales process mirrors to a degree how I do my own selling. I'm not capable of brash, hypey sales presentations - in fact, I don't even do presentations. All I do is ask my client questions and then show them how to fix their problems.

So far it has worked reasonably well.

However, I am aware that some clients need motivating to act sooner rather than later. Thus far, I have not been good at motivating people to "act now", and whether you like it or not Phil, unless you have a huge pool of prospects and can wait 6 or 12 months for them to take action, you absolutely do have to motivate them. Otherwise there is a tendency to sit around thinking "yeah, that's a nice idea - I'll think about it next month" and then nothing happens.

In the case of the services that I provide, the benefit may seem somewhat nebulous to the client. They have to be informed so as to be persuaded to try the service. There is absolutely nothing enethical about my service, and I wouldn't sell it so someone if I didn't think they would benefit from it. There is also nothing unethical about presenting my absolutely best case to them.

If you have a good, ethical business that genuinely helps people, then you shouldn't be ashamed to present it in the best way that you can. It doesn't do you, your client or god any good if you fail!

More on this in the other thread.

Peace out.
Jane

Jane,

You did indeed. My read is that you and I are traveling
in the same direction, but at different points along
the spectrum. You're exploring alternatives to hard
selling, I'm exploring alternatives to soft selling. I feel an
affinity with your quest.

Yes, I agree. It's my fault for letting a moralistic tone infect
my posts. You're right to challenge that.

It's appears to be challenging to write about those
strategies that are proudly based on emotional manipulation
without a moralistic tone creeping in but, assuming a valid
product, web page copy isn't a moral issue. We all have the
right to type whatever we want on our pages. No one is
forced to read it.

Making one's best case with emotionally manipulative copy
(which isn't Jane's goal) isn't unethical, but it feels that
way to many of it's readers, thus introducing a technical
problem. If we want to sell widgets to Jane's brother, who
is allergic to anything that smells like a pitch, we just
have to find some other way to do it, that's all.

Maybe Jane's soft sell non-manipulative approach will do the
job.

Or maybe Jane's brother is so fed up with being emotionally
manipulated every time he turns around that we'll need to
abandon the whole concept of persuasion in order to win him
over.

Remember, every emotionally manipulative copy writer is hard
at work creating more fed up people like Jane's brother. We
can thank our emotionally manipulative brothers and sisters
for building this growing market for us!

Which makes you completely normal. So what's the solution?
My guess is that Mike was closing in on the answer when he
quoted Tom Myer as saying:

Does this concept deserve a thread of it's own?

Phil

Phil,
Hi, you raise an interesting point. After having written copy for several years, I can say one thing with clarity: I am almost completely immune to hype and copy online.
If I see it I click away instantly. Anything with large headlines, large fonts, and lots of bullet points and text boxes...promises (even if supposedly true).
The worst offenders? Informational products and sales letters directed towards online marketing. I asked one online marketer recently why on earth people are sucked in by these letters. His response? There are a lot of new people online...also people who are hoping to earn income...so there's always a market for dreams.
The only places I visit online anymore have clear, simple, direct copy (without an exclamation point anywhere in their content; oh why! do!people! think it makes copy better to use them everywhere?)
It makes me wonder myself, if those who write these types of letters believe that the average person is too dumb to realize that bolding commands is meant to make us act now or that most people can't tell the neurolinguist commands cleverly embedded in the copy...close your eyes and imagine a world where writing was intelligent, and web sites were actually stimulating to the cerebral cortex language centers..can you see the picture (just an example of the techniques that make me mad).
I know these techniques work on the naive and new to the Web, but eventually there will be no newbies left. Then what will marketers do?
Just venting after seeing one too many sites like this lately...and having clients ask me to use more of this in my own copy...
Sheri

Hi Phil,

I see you are living up to your nickname as The Notorious Thought Provoker here in this other thread!

I had an interesting informal discussion with one of our clients (a very savvy webmaster), and he was gently criticizing our salesletter, going on and on (I was simply listening), then at a certain point he stopped cold in his tracks, and said, "what am I complaining about? It worked on me!"

I don't know about the rest of us, but I almost never surf with the intention of buying (except for maybe a specific book every now and then). And I certainly recognize sales copy when I come across it, but if the product concept and presentation are interesting, I'll read it through - and on rare occasion I even buy - the copy has to do a really good job of convincing me that it is in my highest interest to do so - otherwise I just scan.

Now, I don't like the "I'll kiss elephant butts", or the "Send them running home to mommies", kind of hype, and never buy from these - but then again, I'm not the target market for these pitches.

John Reese made a bold statement a few months back on Tony Blake's forum (I don't remember the exact words) - something like: If you want to make real money online - your target market needs to be towards IDIOTS. I'm paraphrasing here (don't quote me!)

I just tried to dig up the original post, because it was very well written, John had some incredible observations, but it was no longer available.

Now, Phil, I realize that your main goal here is NOT to make a killing online using whatever technique is needed to do so, you are looking for alternative selling techniques that reflect your nature more appropriately.

Or if I may, a non selling approach, that sells! Are you asking the impossible? No, but I fear that you would seriously limit your results, that's all.

We all have our limits - Mike mentioned spamming as an unacceptable (in another thread), I won't kiss elephant butts, someone else doesn't want to "send their competitors running home to mommy", etc. etc.

I very recently helped a good friend launch his first web site and gave him several hours of free counseling, I even wrote some copy for him that was also optimized for Google. This friend offers a service, and he, like you, had some strong reservations against persuasive writing. To respect this, I wrote the copy very gently, it wasn't at all aggressive, but it did ask the visitor to act, and very clearly showed them the benefits of doing so.

He ended up taking it down before anyone even saw it! He then completely rewrote it (destroying the optimization), and took away ANY call to action - it is now your classic Curriculum Vitae... I learned here, am Associated with ..., have been practicing for X years, this service is based on this tradition, etc, etc. All I could say was, "it's your site... sigh".

Now, his site will NOT offend, it will NOT turn people off, it will also NOT gather SE traffic, and it will NOT sell - this I am sure of! Mind you, my copy was NOT offensive in the least! No elephant butts, nurturing mommies, no exclamation points, no PPPPPPPs's, etc.

It's just that my friend could not bring himself to ask for the visitor's business, and he felt that even suggesting benefits was too aggressive. This is a very common psychological trap that many find themselves in, they have decided to embark as a private business, and need sales to survive, but are terrified to actually sell. I see it all the time!

Well, I learned - no more freebies!

Any comments?

Tim

Hi Sherri, welcome to the thread.

"Always a market for dreams", yes, your friend put that well. It's fair to say that it's often the dream, not the product, that is being bought and sold. Few of us are completely immune, eh?

Now that there's a little broader spectrum of views being expressed, why don't we let up on our direct response copy friends a bit and agree that if some folks want to sell dreams and others want to buy them, go in peace, have fun together!

We don't need to turn that business model in to the enemy camp. But some of us just naturally don't belong in that model as writers or readers and have to find another path. In between being just the kind of relentless persuader I claim to hate I've been trying to dive deeper in to Mike's "authentic copywriting" premise and ponder what it really means.

Phil

Yo Tim!

It's like Boy Scouts, I'm working my way up the merit badge
ladder. Thought provoker. Paradigm poker. Pompous
Blowharder. Thanks to all for allowing me to be the
first to point out that there's something sorta ridiculous
about somebody arguing so relentlessly against persuasion
tactics! But it's worth looking silly if I get to keep
reading the reply posts.

Completely fair point. How does this sound? No matter
what approach one takes; hard sell, soft sell, no sell,
there are benefits to each approach, and a price to pay.

So, knowing that, what sales approach should one adopt?
It's confusing for a lot of us, thus this thread.

Somebody might say: It's easy, split test, and you'll have
your answer.

Split testing is incredibly nifty and useful, but it's too
limited a tool to provide the full answer here, imho.

Example: Somebody who really isn't a hard seller in their
heart uses that strategy anyway because they read an ebook
saying that is "the system" that works on the Web.

The price of making this compromise is that this person has
just created a distance between their natural enthusiasm,
the _real source_ of all their power, and their business.
By using a communication style that is a misrepresentation
of who they really are, they are also succeeding in
generating the kind of client list they won't have a natural
ability to connect with.

But, as Tim points out, if this person is instead loyal to
themselves and takes a softer sell approach more in tune
with what their gut is telling them to do, they may
underperform in the "idiot market", which we must all admit
is substantial.

The advantage of using any of the sales strategies in wide
use is that these systems have often been tested by many
smart people over a long period of time.

The disadvantage of adopting anyone else's system is that
you are then by definition not a leader, and you sacrifice
the opportunity to develop your own unique voice, a crucial
asset on the Net.

So, there's no free lunch. Trade offs in every direction.

We understand that, but still we understandably reach for
some kind of principle or system that can guide us towards
the right sales strategy decisions.

Perhaps Mike's "authentic copywriting" concept can bring us
towards a conceptual framework we can all be comfortable in?

Business is about connecting people, yes? Let's try to
close all the little gaps that divide us from our client.

1. Connect with who I really am.
2. Connect who I really am to my business.
3. Connect my business to those who like who I really am.

In the long run maybe a process something like this is a
more important ingredient to our success than memorizing
rules from a system that may be an accurate reflection of
who somebody else really is?

Thanks again for the thread!

Phil

Phil,

Judging from the comments on this thread, you're doing quite a job on trying to persuade us your point of view ...

Oooops! Did I say "persuade?" Errr, ignore that.