Hi All,

I found Robert Bly's book, "The Copywriter's handbook" a great read.
He addresses some issues that you'll face as a freelance copywriter
as opposed to working with an Ad agency. All great tips.

The most commons issue that I face (which he mentioned) is clients
who approach you looking for a "deal" or to barter your services
with the promise that they have a LOT more work in the pipeline
that they can pass on to you if you give them this deal.

I was just wondering if anyone else have the same experience so
that I can assess my own situation. For example, I don't know,
but I don't think that Michel gets anyone asking him to write sales
letters for $500! (I'm being a little ridiculous here.)

If he does then I'll find great comfort. If he doesn't then I know
that it's just 'growing pains' for me.

Thanks for the reaction of other Copywriters,

Ray Edwards

Ray,

Not everyone will agree with me on this, but I firmly believe that how people respond to you is in large part a function of the energy you are putting out. People read the words you write and also read between the lines and look at the whole image you project. If you radiate success, then they treat you accordingly, and if you project that you are cheap and/or desperate for work, you will get offers with ridiculous proposals.

A good way to head off the kind of freebie seekers you are referring to is to make a statement at your web site like, "My minimum fee is X" or "Fee for services only - no percentage deals."

Good luck,
Marcia Yudkin

The question is, could you use the add'l work?

If so, then barter is a great option -- just make sure you barter for something of real value. If you get that a lot, you could join a barter exchange club (like ITEX (www.itex.net). Then, when they offer barter, you can say, "I do all my batering through an organized barter club. I'd be happy to barter with you -- you just have to join the club and pay with barter dollars.

(Actually, that may not work for higher dollar amounts, since they won't have built up a barter balance, yet. But, it's worth considering.)

And as for getting low dollar offers with the hope of future business -- again, if you could use the work, accept the low up front fee and take a percentage of the profits for 1 to 2 years. You can end up with far more than your normal fee that way -- if you write a good letter and it performs.

Do you know how Jay Abraham is able to command such incredible fees? He started out doing exclusively pay on performance projects. Once he had enough big performers, he started publishing how much people paid him for his work. Then, he said, in effect, "These people were willing to pay me ($30,000, $50,000, whatever) for my consulting and copywriting, and they were happy to do it because they made 10 times that. Now, YOUR fee is only $xxxx."

Ray,

I must preface this by saying I'm no expert on this subject -- I've only been writing copy for 5 months.

But what I learnt from 5 months of "hard knocks" is this: as a copywriter, your posture is critical. If you don't set up the right posture from the very beginning, your client isn't gonna respect your work, he's not gonna use it as you gave it to him, he's gonna tinker with the copy and get zero results and you can forget about all the "future work" he promised (which he probably had no intention of giving you in the first place -- he just told you that to get a "deal").

If someone asks for a discount and promises "future work", and you say yes, he immediately thinks of you as someone desperate for work. He'll treat you like a desperate starving writer. BAD positioning. So what I'd say is NO, I MAY accept your first project if you pay full rate, and then IF you're a good client I'll CONSIDER working with you on your future projects. DON'T assume I'm gonna accept any work you throw at me, cos I won't. (I'll do this even if it hurts -- because I've gotten screwed too many times giving "deals" to clients.)

Do you remember the "copywriting apprentice" competition from the Warrior Forum a few months back? Some guy said "the copywriter who writes the best-pulling copy for my product gets $X plus 3 future projects." If I'm not mistaken, 7 copywriters worked their butts off under a tight deadline to produce copy for him. (I was one of them.) And what does the guy do? He sits on all 7 pieces of copy for months and does nothing. He says it's due to problems in his personal life. But you know what? I'd bet if he had PAID a handsome fee UP FRONT to get his copy written, he'd put his personal problems aside for a day or two and actually USE the copy, just to recoup his investment. (Don't get me wrong, I'm NOT mad at the guy -- I'm actually GRATEFUL to him for teaching me an important lesson, early on in my career.)

I'm at the point where I'll no longer write copy for "el cheapos" who don't respect the true value of a copywriter. I'm much better off spending my time creating products so I can write copy for myself. True players who respect the value of a copywriter don't pinch pennies when hiring a copywriter.

Keith's point about how Jay Abraham started is valid, but I'm willing to bet Jay did NOT accept proposals from penny-pinchers. He probably worked his deals very selectively, with people who had proven track records, that he knew were not tire-kickers. Otherwise, you can give a tire-kicker the greatest sales letter in the world and nothing's gonna happen.

You're a published author and you produce good work. If you raise your fees and fire your problem clients, I'm sure the vacuum will be filled with good clients who seek you out.

Yeo

Ditto. If I had a buck for every prospect who dangled the carrot of "more work later" for a "discount" now, I'd have ... maybe fifty bucks. Here's how I handle it: I very graciously thank them for the offer, but tell them it's my policy to reward my longstanding, high volume clients with that type of discount, and it would be unfair to my best clients if I started handing out the same discounts to everyone else. So, I tell them, if they become one of my high volume clients, I will be delighted to give them the same special discounts down the road. Funny, they never seem to take me up on that. They really are shopping on price, not on quality, and absolutely do not recognize the concept of ROI.

The more experience I get in the marketplace, the less and less this even comes up. I truly do believe, as someone alluded to in an earlier post, that the more confidence you project, the less you attract this type of tire-kicking, usually-clueless prospect.

Eileen

Ray,

I got caught by the "other work" ruse. I busted my chops getting a project done on a 2 day deadline for really silly money (and I mean REALLY SILLY) because there was the promise of a load of other marketing related work, testimonials blah blah blah. Outcome: client was delighted by my copy (and it's still up on several websites even as we speak); I didn't get the additional work; when I asked for a discount on a service she provided, the answer in short order was "no" and then we fell out big time (because you can only push me so far before I fire you).

I also agree with Marcia about the confidence begets confidence syndrome. I'd take it a level deeper and say that when you are feeling lack - e.g. I lack money, I lack clients, I lack confidence, then this is subconsciously broadcast to the prospect, who subconsciously takes advantage of it, or doesn't buy. Either way, as Yeo said, they won't value what you've done because you weren't sufficiently confident in yourself or your work. There are 2 routes out of this syndrome:

1) Take it on the chin - accept that ****ty things happen when you start out in business, and that you aren't maybe as confident in your abilities as you'd like to be. Do some free projects or accept the low-paid ones to build up your confidence in yourself and your own abilities, and charge more in line with your level of confidence. This is a slightly long-winded method, and will see you struggling to get into profit, but it's maybe necessary in some situations (especially if you don't have a track record or any success stories to report)

2) Find a way to authentically have the confidence that you are valuable and that the work you produce has value. This may take an element of "blagging" and bull****, but if you know that you're capable, then just go with it.

Route 2 will only work consistently if you truly believe it, and there's nothing wrong with route 1 - it's just slower.

However, what I would say to anyone in a service industry, whether they be copywriter, consultant or coach is this: don't negotiate over future work. Negotiate over percentage increases in revenue or profit or ROI (whichever is easiest to measure and which you can measure yourself if need be) if that's the way to get the job. Sometimes you'll have a client who genuinely can't stump up the several thousands needed for copywriting, and then you might want to cut a deal for both of you. But if you can verify for yourself that the client is solvent and in profit, then they shouldn't be asking you for silly deals unless they don't have confidence in copywriting fullstop (period), in which case, do you really want them as a client. Garbage in = garbage out, so if they don't treat you with respect at the beginning, why should they treat you or your work with respect later on. Also agree with Yeo about people shopping on price. What we do is not about price, it's about results.

It's much easier to lower your prices than it is to raise them. Even if this "other work" did materialise, how are you going to then get them to pay proper commercial rates for it, when you've already taught them that you work cheap?

This lecture goes out to anyone who finds it useful and also to all Janeologist's in the world

Hi Marcia,

I think that you've been secretly talking with my wife! She "preaches"
the same thing to me all the time. I think I need professional counseling
by now.

But after hearing this so many times I have to accept it as truth. I need
to work on my "positionsing". Maybe because I'm so accustomed
to the "serving" jobs of teaching and pastoring that I 'sympathize'
a little too much with my clients. I lack the 'hard nose' take-it-or-leave-it
charcteristic of the business person --- But I'm learning.

Thanks Marcia!

Ray Edwards

Ray, I hear ya. I opened my copywriting business a couple years ago after raising kids for a decade, and it was hard for me to make the leap from frugal-minded mom to value-oriented businesswoman. I imagine in the education and church community, where there just aren't the budgets like there are in the B2B community, you also had to make this mental financial leap.

It's not so much being "hard-nosed" or "take it or leave it" as it is in first understanding (or "internalizing" or "owning" or "believing" - take your pick of buzzwords) the value you bring to the client, and then conveying that with confidence. I was fortunate to have a copywriting buddy at the outset; we would call each other for a pep talk (and sometimes a prayer) before quoting prices to clients. I still remember the first time I quoted a $750 job to someone, which at the time seemed like a ton of money to me. When the prospect didn't even blink, because I was solving a big problem for her which she was totally unequipped to do herself, I realized there really was something to the concept of value. When a client does not value your copywriting rates, chances are he or she will also not value your time, your opinions, or anything. I am fortunately at the point where I no longer have to spend time educating or hand-holding prospects who lack even a basic understanding of what good writing can do for them.

My clients are mostly local, not big-name businesses, and yet they have $$$ and are willing to spend them on good copywriting. I am convinced that the aura of confidence I project draws more qualified prospects to me and the cheapskates stay away. I'm still getting most of my business by networking, at exactly the same type of networking events I went to when I started my business, and yet I am attracting a whole different level of client. I see no other way to explain it other than the "vibe" I give off.

So ... listen to your wife. She's right.

Eileen

Eileen,

Thanks for sharing your experience! I have seen this process at work again and again in so many ways. Someone who exudes power attracts powerful clients. Someone who exudes motherliness attracts lost souls who need a lot of handholding. Etc.

Right now in my Marketing for More program there's someone who was barely making any money because she was afraid to charge more than $35 an hour. She just raised her rate successfully to $50 an hour, without a squawk from the client, feels great and is psyched to roll out a whole new system of pricing where no one can really see the fee per hour that she's using to calculate it, because they're project prices. It all starts with awareness and a decision to change.

I had to work on my voice early in my business career, because I can sound like a little girl if I'm not paying attention to what I'm doing (Until I went gray I looked very young, too). As you said, I still have the same voice, but now I can sound smooth, persuasive and still totally authentic.

Ray, deciding to attract the kinds of clients you really want is a process of change and usually can't happen instantly, but with support, it can happen. You'll see those el-cheapos and freebie seekers just melt away.

For anyone who's following the discussion, you might benefit from a short PDF article I have on why you CAN charge more - and get it:

http://www.marketingformore.com/survey.htm

(It's free - you don't even need to register.)

Good luck,
Marcia Yudkin

It's a great article, Marcia. I read it about 18 months ago when I needed to gather some courage for quoting my rates.