Hi All,

I guess this is a little spin off on the "When to Ask fo the Money?" thread. I've been wondering about this...

I'm in the middle of launching my copywriting biz. (I'm aiming for a Sept. 1st launch date.) I'm finishing my Web site, the follow-up package to be sent to leads I've generated, etc. As I structure the follow-up package and structure my offer, I'm wondering about kill fees.

In the case of the earlier thread, I think that returning the money in its entirety if the client decides not to use you is appropriate.

But suppose a client signs an agreement and sends me a 50% deposit for the job. The client changes their mind and decides to kill the project AFTER I've started the job.

I think it's only appropriate to keep the deposit. What do you think? Otherwise, I'll be constantly in limbo when it comes to my income and finishing a job. And having my income be so subject to a client's whims makes me a little nervous.

In one book I read on business writing, the author said that kill fees were rare. (It wasn't on direct response pe se, just business writing -- PR, newsletters, brochures, etc.)

I have contracted with a designer to do my Web site and I paid her 50% up front. For a while there, it looked like I was going to kill the project and go with another designer. But I wouldn't have asked for my deposit back. She'd already put in time and effort and it was only fair that she get to keep it.

I would like to know if this is appropriate. I intend to make it a standard part of my agreements up front so that there are no surprises. Maybe other writers don't work that way, but it's the way *I* work.

Of course, this can be adjusted for the specifics of the project. Like making the deposit 1/3 of the total or whatever. I'm not looking at the specific numbers. I'm just looking at the issue of kill fees.

What do you think? What has been your experience?

Thanks!

Michelle

Hi Michael,

Mentioning the Kill Fees in your contract might not be a great idea as the customer is sure to raise this point as an issue when finalizing the contract. I suggest a quick verbal discussion prior to the project would be helpful in deciding if you should add this clause or not.

What would you like to do in occasions where you have killed a project due to lack of time etc?


Warm regards,
Kavita

Michelle,

It is more than the work done.

It is the commitment of your time...and your lost opportunity costs by passing up other projects.

If a client kills a project after I've started on it, I may refund part of the money but make it clear that it is a voluntary gesture on my part.

If the client kills the project before I start, I'll refund less any consult time.

As for putting the kill fee in an agreement, I've found that the more contract lingo is involved, the more likely the other side is to back off from the deal, have his lawyer review the agreement before proceeding, etc. Your experience may vary.

Regards,

Mike Young
Direct Marketing
"I help service professionals make more money in less time."

Getting the upfront money is partially done to thwart clients backing out at the last minute. I mean if I'm putting aside the time for a project, I can't just eat that time when the guy backs out. I have no way of knowing if I'm going to refill that time. To me, this makes the upfront a bit of an insurance policy. Cancel after I've officially accepted, then it's all on you. And the deposit is mine.

That said, if this came up, I would offer to credit the deposit toward a future project (with no guarantees that my rate would be the same).

I think that's a good compromise. I keep the money I was expecting, and at the same time, the client has "credit" with me for a future project.

Your bogging yourself down with irrelevant stuff right
now.

The only thing I think you should be worrying about is
getting clients at this point. All the other things will
work themselves out when you hit that road.

It reminds me of this dude who was asking about tax
advice and accounting proceedures on his niche website,
yet he hadn't even made a sale yet.

I'd be focusing on what's important, and right now that
is getting clients.

All this other stuff is just getting in the way of you getting
some work in my opinion.

Jason is so on target with this.

The thinking of what happens if... is pretty warped.

If you do a good job of selling, it won't happen.

And, get all the money up front.

This is part of what I'll be teaching in Vegas.

A further thought, Dan Kennedy compares copywriters to hookers.

They always get paid before the job not after.

Because the value is in the anticipation - not when the job is done.

Not fond of the analogy but Dan is blunter than I am!

I JUST BOUGHT A NEW BED ...

and the guy said to me ...

"that'll be £2,975.00 please"

I gave him my card and walk out the shop with a piece of paper.

The piece of paper went a bit like this.

Invoice, bladdey blah.

Delivery date (estimate) 6 weeks from purchase.

I bought a TV ... same again.

I bought a car ... same again.

I bought a washer ... same again.

I hired a laywer (parasite) same again!

Get the point?

DO YOU?

Always ask for payment upfront ... ALWAYS!

Alan x x x

Michelle,

Consider signing up with a business coach to help you keep your focus on what's most important and help you avoid wasting time on worries that are not realistic. You'll be spending your time more effectively and doing the right things and best of all, doing it with a positive attitude.

It's also helpful to know that you have someone experienced behind you holding a net, in a sense, in case you trip or have panicky questions.

Remember too that even a lot of experienced people use business coaches to keep themselves on track. I have a coach I depend on from time to time when I am going through a rough patch or am not sure of my direction.

There are lots of business coaches out there, and you should find someone whose experience and perspective you trust.

Best wishes,
Marcia Yudkin

Although I'm not a copywriter, I am a freelancer and learned the hard way about kill fees. I was working with a regular client who provided me years of great work. When I took on an enormous project for them, I turned down thousands of dollars of work so as no to overload myself. They decided to pull the project in-house within a couple of weeks of working on it, and I was left with two months of no work and no income. Yes, I survived but I was beyond ticked off at myself for not having a kill-fee.

While I agree that worrying about getting work is top priority, it never hurts to understand the nitty-gritty of the business.

Treece