Hi - I'm a huge fan of NLP, have been since I was a sales trainer, and I know that it has a terrific potential, when used ethically, to achieve stunning breakthroughs in communication and rapport-building.

This is also true in copywriting as well, which is why my salesletters have generated over $1.2 million for me.

But there's a lot of criticism of NLP, saying it's manipulative, unethical blah blah blah.. eg see this mostly-critical coverage of NLP:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neuro-l...ic_programming


Now my question is: what are your insights into NLP?

btw NLP is hugely popular in the UK for some reason.. anyone know why?

Overall, I think that like any persuasion technology, NLP could conceivably be mis-used, as with the case of con men using reciprocation/other persuasive tactics ...

but overall, used ethically and in the context of world-class salesmanship in print, I believe NLP is one of the single MOST powerful fields of study for copywriters ... (be sure to snag a used/expensive copy of "trance-formations" from bandler on ebay, and his 'persuasion engineering' book on amazon, both are terrific)...

Ideas on NLP, for those who've really studied it?


thx,

Ken Calhoun

Ken, I was going to PM you privately about this but I thought maybe someone else would benefit... so here goes....

The Wizard of San Juan Island
An Introduction to the Work of Dr. Dave Dobson and Other Than Conscious Communication

The Washington State Ferry crossing the Puget Sound passed a number of islands carved out by glaciers thousands of years ago. As the ferry docked in Friday Harbor, we quickly made the acquaintance of our fellow pilgrims on the way to spend a week in a Fun Shop with Dr. Dave Dobson.

As we compared notes, we had very sketchy notes. Dr. Dobson had retired to San Juan Island after a legendary career as a master hypnotherapist in Los Angeles. Dobson had maintained an office for years and seen patients privately. He also treated burn patients at the Sherman Oaks burn unit.

Dobson has been compared most often to Dr. Milton Erickson, the legendary psychiatrist and hypnotherapist. Dr. Dobson met Erickson late in his career after both had spent a lifetime developing a style that had many similarities.

In the 1970’s Dobson was introduced to Richard Bandler and John Grinder as they were formulating Neuro-linguistic Programming (NLP.) Bandler and Grinder were astounded that Dobson had come up with so many patterns which they has discovered in the work of Milton Erickson.

"During my 25 years of experience teaching psychotherapy to psychiatry residents, I have had the opportunity to witness many different teaching and therapeutic approaches...and the good fortune to have worked with Dr. Milton Erickson.

Dr. Dobson, who devised his use of metaphor and hypnotherapy independently of Dr. Erickson, is strikingly similar in his approach. His sincerity and dedication to effective work...along with the creativeness of the approaches he has developed in hypnotherapy make the time with him well spent."

Arthur S. Samuels, M.D. Professor, Tulane University

Dr. Dobson has stated many times, “I’m grateful to John and Richard for explaining to me exactly what I was doing.” Dobson was aware of representational systems, rapport, metaphor, and analogical marking; he had been unable to convey to others his system for change.

But despite serious attempts at uncovering the secrets to Dr. Dobson’s training, a group of us found ourselves heading to his house for what would prove to be a life-changing week.

Dobson’s teaches his Other Than Conscious Communication in a Fun Shop just once a year. Individuals who have heard snippets about Dobson’s work journey to the island to discover the truth behind the legend. This year, 2006 is very likely going to be the last fun shop ever.

Dr. Dobson calls his seminars Fun Shops because he believes learning should be fun. It is impossible to keep a straight face during the Fun Shops as Dobson teaches in between jokes.

"I can truthfully say this experience has changed my life forever! I wholeheartedly recommend (it) to anyone interested in improving their communication skills both professionally and socially."

Robert Johnson, Past President, Minnesota Trial Lawyers Association
Minneapolis, MN


But there is a serious side to his joking as well. Dave believes that people spend way too much time focusing on the negative instead of reviewing positive resources that they already have.

Each individual carries around with them a unique collection of experiences that Dave calls a “filing cabinet.” With deepest respect for the individual, Dave teaches the fun-shop on simultaneous levels.

Just as no two individuals have the same fingerprints, no two individuals will experience a fun shop in the exact same way. Nor will they come away with the exact same learnings.

One year, I attended a fun shop with my wife. When we compared notes, it was as if we had attended two different fun-shops. My wife got one huge fundamental concept out of the fun-shop, and other than consciously, put it to work immediately. It has become part of her routine.

Each time you attend a fun-shop, your senses are opened and stretched in delightful and new ways.

Through repeated attendance, here’s what I learned at Dave Dobson’s Fun Shops:

• I discovered the system that Bandler and Grinder left out of the NLP model and why learning this system made it possible to persuade more people effortlessly.
• I learned how to channel communication directly into the other than conscious and how to access that channel instantly every time I meet with that client.
• A model for rapport that is deceivingly simple but devastatingly powerful. It’s a split second technique to powerfully connect you to other people. Once you master this technique, you will magnetically attract people to you.
• How to read any client like an open book. I’ve learned what they are thinking before they do and be able to adjust my skills.
• How to develop instant rapport even in a crowded room and even if I never get to talk to a person. They’ll be your best friend even before they meet you.
• Simple questions that reveal exactly what my clients patterns are going to be before they even know it themselves.
• Why some people talk with their hands and how they want you to talk to them.
• A simple technique to create amnesia for all of my client’s problems and how to handle their sudden readiness to change.
• The missing piece from NLP about eye-movements and what to do when the eye movements don’t match their predicates.
• How an instant rapport technique gets even strangers to open up and tell their life’s history.
• Covert techniques to interrupt a person’s less than useful patterns and how to replace them with valuable strategies instead.
• The Stalin Hypnosis Induction. I didn’t believe it was happening until you notice people around you dropping into trance. I was next!
• I learned how to use your voice more effectively and anchor trance states in others. I’m still working on this one and I’ve seen tremendous growth already.

Warning!

Dave Dobson teaches Other Than Conscious Communication by modeling it. There are no handouts, no certificates, and no degrees to confer. Want to get good at these techniques? Dave will teach you how to make friends with your Other Than Conscious Mind. In the days that follow the Fun Shop, your Other Than Conscious will assist you in applying these teachings to your life, for the rest of your life.

A Guide to Attending a Fun Shop:

The story is told of a wise king who wanted to give a treasure to his children but was afraid it would be stolen. He hinted that it was near a rose bush in his garden. The simple son looked at the rose bush and said, “What a beautiful bush. My father has given me the gift of beauty.” The next son realized that his father must have had another intention. He approached the bush but quickly got stuck by a thorn. “There can’t be any treasure here. My father wouldn’t want us to get hurt!” The wise son observed his brothers’ behavior and began to think. Using a long shovel, he dug up the rose bush and found the buried treasure.

Everyone has different highlights and special memories from Dave Dobson’s Fun Shops.

• Dave ends some days with a formal trance. (He refers to them as tuxedo trances.)
• Experience first hand the famous Beach induction. This has become Dr. Dobson’s signature induction (and most often copied.)
• Experience English Camp on San Juan Island after Dave age regresses the entire group!
• Apply what you have learned to people you encounter on the Island. Dr. Dobson will give regular assignments to those who want to master his teachings.
• Learning Dave’s instant “hello” technique and getting unusual responses from total strangers.
• Meet the Orca’s who live in the Puget Sound and experience nature in the form of Bald Eagles, San Juan Deer, and other native wildlife.

"The special gift of a Dave Dobson Funshop is that I attended it in 1987 and its value still keeps on showing up in my life no matter what the endeavor. It was an investment of time and tuition that keeps on paying dividends."

Mark Thomas, Fredonia, N.Y.

"There are more ways to utilise and benefit from Dave’s work than people have begun to dream of. The increased personal capacity for handling difficult situations with poise, grace (whoever she is) and humour is a delight in itself. But that pales into insignificance compared to the joy of playing with your own mind. ".

Clifford Saunders,Ph.D. ,Too Serious unLimited
Toronto, Canada

I will be attending this Year’s Fun Shop!

Our Fun Shop is set for May 21-26, 2006 in Friday Harbor. If you are interested in attending, you can register online at www.Excelquest.com or call 800-582-9980. Dobson’s home on San Juan Island. There is an absolute maximum of twenty five places and many of these spots are already taken by returnees. (Dave calls them repeat offenders.)

Here’s Why You Should Attend This Year’s Fun Shop
In the Hypnosis and NLP community, there are people lamenting the fact that they never got to train personally with Milton Erickson.

Dr. Dave Dobson is the one teacher in this generation who has the unique talents and abilities to carry the torch of mastery.

But Dave’s health has not been good. He’ll turn 76 this year and will keep teaching as long as his health bears it.

Even if it means rearranging your schedule, find the time to attend this year’s Fun Shop.

You won’t regret it.

I’ve attended seven Fun Shops and each one I learn something new. Dave would absolutely kill me if I give away his secrets but I think I can get away with one…

Dave is always living and demonstrating Other Than Conscious Communication. You won’t want to miss even a second of his teachings.

Sincerely,


Harlan Kilstein Ed.D.

PS. If you are wondering if there are any books you should read in advance of the Fun Shop, the only one Dave would recommend would be Frogs Into Princes by Bandler and Grinder. You are not required to have an NLP background. In fact, you may learn the material faster that way.

http://www.excelquest.com/content/view/19/38/

Hi Harlan - hey thanks for the great response, value-packed as usual. I always find value in your comments and critiques, and take action on them, as they make sense... so thanks much.

I know you've got a strong background in NLP, I was hoping you'd post, so thanks much. It's a terrific discipline to leverage as a copywriter... I don't know why more people aren't making the connections ... will do re checking out the resources you've mentioned -- thank you...!

Interesting to see you've got an Ed.D .. that's a solid credential .. I've got my 2 degrees (BA, MSI/O) in industrial/organizational psych (UCLA and Cal State- Long Beach).

Now I'm trying to learn how to be a better storyteller, and use anchoring more effectively.

ken

I still don't understand how NLP is used in a work setting rather than a clinical setting?

I've got some prospects selling NLP into Local authorities here, and I haven't got the faintest idea what they do or how they sell it without it being considered "woo woo" or snake oil.

????

Jane

If you educate yourself on NLP, you'll learn what's meant by it's applications to the workplace.

read a couple of books. Harlan's suggestion is great, also get Bandlers "Persuasion Engineering" from amazon.com for plenty of corporate work-related NLP applications.

Ken

No thanks. I've got enough to do already without reading NLP books.

I was just hoping there was a one paragraph explanation of how NLP techniques can be used in the workplace.

Jane

You want one paragraph?

Here it is:

NLP makes it possible for people in the work place to rapidly establish rapport with total strangers, elicit their purchasing and persuasive strategies, and covertly influence to take a desired outcome. Some of the highest paid salespeople in the world use NLP to enhance their persuasive abilities. NLP strategies are easily learned and implemented in various work place situations.

NLP at Work by Sue Knight is the single most extensive work on using NLP in the work environment.

Here's a second paragraph related to copy:

NLP is based on the science of modeling. Someone proficient at modeling can elicit, decode, reproduce, and install someone else's behavior in a third person.

I am in the process of modeling top copywriters. I have already modeled John Carlton and David Deutch. I expect to model several others as well.
It's a fascinating process taking their thought processes to levels they've never even considered.

So far, the two models have - as expected - significant commonalities and significant differences and insights.

Sorry you're too busy to check out NLP. It would take a third paragraph to discuss language patterns, criteria, nested loops and isomorphism.

thx for the tip, Harlan - just ordered that one on Amazon ... (the UPS guy jokingly asked me how much AMZN stock I own, I get daily deliveries...)

the concept of being "too busy" to read something that I could profit from, is alien to me. I read everything thats' recommended by a trusted person without hesitation ...and Harlan knows his stuff.

like Rohn/Corey said, "poor people have big tvs, rich people have big libraries".

I'm not familiar w/Deutch though ... (refs? site? books?)...

Brilliantly put, in 1 paragraph, Harlan - excellent explanation of NLP at work. It's something I'm eagerly learning all I can about, and have for years. There's so much practical workplace applicability (sales, team-building, managerial skills, communications) it's a must-know resource for anyone and everyone.

NLP is truly an important interpersonal skill to foster and master. Probably -The- most important.


Ken

Not familiar with David Deutch?

Ouch.

David has four controls currently at Boardroom.

He is hot and in demand.

Clients line up for him.

David Deutch is a copywriting giant. You should listen to his interview with David Garfinkel. Fabulous stuff!