Here's an interesting question for all the folks who write copy for others...:

Issue: Do you accept clients who don't have high integrity?

Situation:

Let's say you're a copywriter for hire, and you have a client that approaches you to do work for them.

Let's say that client produces inferior products, overcharges/underdelivers, and in general doesn't provide good value or products to market... Let's say they're a well-known person, but aren't a credible individual.

But, they can pay very well, because they're well known. And can refer business to you.


Q: Do you accept this person as a client, because of what they can do for you, and pay you? Or do you politely decline, because you don't honestly believe in who they are, or what they produce?

On a similar note, one could be asked to write speeches for political people you don't believe in, or lawyers representing clients who are clearly guilty.

Happens all the time. But is it right, and how do YOU weigh in on the issue?

I ask this, because it's an issue I'd urge copywriters to consider ... "do you take on the client even if they're guilty of having an obviously inferior product/character/integrity", even if they can pay well?

What's the truth of the situation?

I used to deal with this as a mgmt/sales consultant/trainer, and had the luxury of routinely declining clients who I felt had inferior or shoddy merchandise, or were not honest, as it was hard for me to reconcile teaching who I saw as not being deserving of the techniques, what worked... but I know a lot may be just starting out and tempted to provide services for whoever has the money. Is it our place to look at the integrity/character of whom we work with, or "is a job just a job"?

Very curious to hear your folks' take on it,


Ken Calhoun

Definitely NOT

I don't need nor do I want that kind of thing.

I write copy for results and money, but I also write it because I love success. I love succeeding in things... and I love things that are associated with success.

Real success comes from beneficial products. From tremendous value. The surge of happiness, mass improvement and added value that come from that is a rush I wouldn't trade for anything.

Working for people like that depletes your enthusiasm for copy. It becomes "work", and I don't like to "work".

If something is obviously a "scam" or in any way deceptive... if I can't sell something by full disclosure and honest enthusiasm... then I don't want to sell it at all.

Tim's signature comes to mind. "Nothing kills a bad product better than good copy." Very true - and anything less than a good product can only sell by "bad copy" - either deceptive, or not disclosing all the details. Either way, the results always suffer, the customers suffer and I suffer. It's so much easier and more profitable to leave it and move on to the next.

Very interesting post by the way Ken. Kudos

Ken & Erik,

Just for grins -- and to make it interesting -- I'm going to take a slightly different position on this for a second.

First let me clarify... I'm not talking about scams. I'm talking more specifically about the "inferior products" idea you mentioned.

Here's my first, and shortest answer: It depends on how hungry you are!

I know that sounds crazy, but I think it's a better reality.

Let me give a very brief story -- that somewhat relates.

When I first met with the man who became my mentor in the speaking and human development products industry we talked about "speaking fees." I had heard from the "experts" in the speaking industry that you should not negotiate your fees -- that you should have "FEE INTEGRITY."

I mentioned this to Joe in our first meeting... he laughed and said... "When you're getting started you need to have 'EATING INTEGRITY!'"

Now that's a bit different than writing copy for bad products and services... but let me make the connection.

In the beginning, I think it's important that a "newbie" copywriter cut their teeth and get some business. And then as a result of that, write copy that sells. I'm not so sure "how many returns that client will get" is a concern for the copywriter... if their copy closes the sale and produces results, they've done their job.

And, they can build on that success with "better products and services."

When they're successful and booked solid they can get more picky about what they take on as assignments.

Just another way to look at it -- and I think it is perhaps a bit more reality-based than just "having high integrity."

(NOTE: Again, I want to stress I'm not talking about participating in scams.)

How's that for a different take on the subject?

I would agree with JP. "Food On The Table" is a reality and hard to compare with philosophies of "good work" vs "bad work" (or whatever term we use for writing for inferior products or products frm people with dubious reputation.)

I was reading another thread somewhere in the forum about making oneself "hard to get" or charge an access fee to get rid of tire-kickers, at the risk of losing some genuine business. The question is - can your stomach afford to do that?

By the way - this is my first post in here. Been reading the forums for ages though....Nadin Rath from Pleasanton, California. Greetings everyone.

- Nadin

Food on the table vs Integrity.

I am not so fortunate to have the kind of writing skills that others would pay for. However, I do appreciate good copy when I see it. If you're writing as part of your job, I'd suspect you should put a disclaimer on your site/advertising that you will not write about certain things or write for certain types of businesses. That would include unethical businesses.

On the other hand, if you're hungry, near foreclosure and flat-broke, you may need to compromise. Feed the family or stand by your values?
That's a tough choice. If I were a writer and had a choice, I'd rather stand by my values and hope and pray for something else to come my way.

Why? Because when you compromise on one thing, you can compromise on others until it becomes OK. I think Integrity should come first. Writing a piece that deceives others does harm not only to the writer but also to all those who read his convincing copy. Some of those people may be investing their last dime hoping to succeed on the Internet.

I'd rather sleep well at night than live off "dirty money." It's like the narcotics from drug lords who don't "use" them. They just sell them.
The harm is the same.

That's precisely what I previously noted I was not talking about. I'm not talking about writing copy to sell stuff that defrauds people.

I'm saying that... even if you think the product isn't the greatest, you could potentially feed your family with the money you earn from writing potent copy that makes the client happy.

That's it...

My point... If I was hungry and needed to provide for my family, I wouldn't drive the getaway car for bank robbers. But, I wouldn't have a problem driving a limo for a guy who sells "a magic rubber bristle broom" on late night TV infomercials -- even though I personally wouldn't buy that product. (BTW: There's really an informercial running for that right now).

A bigger question could be: Could you write great copy for a product you don't believe in? Maybe some can, maybe some can't. So that would also be an issue.

But short of cheating, defrauding, willfully harming, or stealing from others -- the welfare of my family would always come first.

JP

PS: (We're all friends and associates talking here, right? So, I'm not trying offend anyone... OK? This is like a really cool "sitting around the fireplace with a glass of wine topic.")

Absolutely...as long as we are not on the 18th glass of wine..

From 2,239 Tested Secrets for Direct Marketing Success by Hatch and Johnson (a book I'm really having fun with):

"When you believe in an offer, you're a much better writer than if you're only an advertising person"--Maxwell Sackheim

I'm thinking of an actor who's really talented, and is "paying her dues." Maybe she's working on a film that's not hard-core porn (something she'd never consider), but has some questionable content, or perhaps some writing that goes against her particular moral views.

And maybe it's kind of a bad script, or a producer who's a bit sleazy, or a third-rate production (anyone seen "Ed Wood"?)---anyhow, you can finish this. A talented actor will find something to latch on to that will allow her to make this part work...to give it integrity. A bad one will just say the lines, hit her marks, and collect the paycheck.

A person of integrity and discernment knows the difference between working hard to sell something that's inferior--and swindling unsuspecting folks with sheer manipulation.

Hopefully, I've learned from my own stupid failings, and I'm pretty good at spotting where the slope starts to get slippery...of course dollar bills and desperation, can grease the skids quite a bit, too!

My $.02 on something I'm sure all of us have--or will need--to consider.

JP,

Definitely.

Food always comes first. I've done some pretty "radical" things when I first started out... that were a leap of faith for me that I had to take on a client. But I was hungry. Not so much for the money, but for the head start.

It worked out great in my case.

Do what you have to do - but do it right.

Sometimes, if I feel a client is a good guy (or girl) and deserves success with his product, but his product is just not cutting it for the consumer, I even go to lengths to help him improve it. I develop my own info products as well so its easy to add to the appeal of a product once you're familiar with that process.

It's not always about money and hungriness - but when it is, I don't mind rolling up my sleeves and do what it takes.

Same goes for the speaking business I assume. If you'd have to do speaking engagements for free once or twice, it's all good - as long as it's not known to anyone else but you and the event's organiser. "Free" is a bad thing to associate yourself with in front of your clients.

Anyway, great analogy as always... and very realistic. Both feet on the ground, I like that

Good question, Ken!

I do like to draw the line and refuse projects for various reasons. Here are some real-life examples:

* A long-time client asked me to help her write a fundraising letter for her church group, in support of a cause that I am 100% opposed to. She obviously had no idea which side of that issue I was on, and I did not want to tell her. (I try to keep political and other partisanship completely out of my business.) So I begged off with a lame excuse along the lines of that I didn't feel I had enough experience with religious groups. This did not harm our relationship.

* Three or four times, someone has tried to hire me to do a press release for a network marketing project for which they were a dealer. I said no or returned their money if they'd already paid me, not because I am opposed to network marketing (I'm not, I take them on a case by case basis) but because in this situation a press release could not possibly benefit the dealer. It could only benefit the company as a whole. One guy to whom I explained this later hired me to do something else I felt I could do for them. The general principle is: if someone wants to hire me to do something that I know with near-certainty will not work, I will not do it.

* A guy tried to hire me to do publicity for an advocacy book on a topic that for personal reasons completely repelled me. I told him no, I didn't like his topic. Then he called me up and got very intrusive, speculating about why I said no and trying to get me to tell him exactly why I said no. This was a horrible experience. I think next time around I would have made up an excuse like being too busy - even though I don't like to do that sort of thing - just to avoid dealing with a person like this. I felt like I needed to take a shower after a conversation with him.

* I gradually began to see that a long-time client (several years) whom I had been mentoring was a pathological liar. She apparently could not distinguish between truth and untruth and would say things publicly about herself that I had learned were not true. She did this without awareness that she was lying and not in a calculating way. This made me more and more uncomfortable. But I liked her, despite this character flaw, and wanted to see her succeed. However, when she posted a review of one of my books on Amazon.com that I knew she had not yet read, that was the last straw. I told her it was time to cut the apron strings and she was ready to be on her own. I did not say why. We are still friendly, and I still like her. I don't think she is a bad person, but I don't want to have this problem of hers in my face again.

* Another very long-time client asked me to copy a competing web site without copying it - that is, use it as a model. I had no problem with that, but there was one element on the model site that I felt would have involved copyright infringement had we used it. When I explained why I thought it would be problematic and possibly illegal to do that, my client said simply, "Oh, I didn't think about that. Well, OK. Let's not do it that way, then." Problem solved.

So you see, many times ethical dilemmas come up in a way that is not black and white and in a way that is not always easy to deal with. It's important to remember that we are not writing machines. Sometimes it's a good stretch to write about a product or a cause we don't feel totally comfortable with. And sometimes it's wrong to do that.

Trust your intuition, I say.

Marcia Yudkin